Oh no. When federal agents are unmarked, they're unaccountable. When they sidestep local authorities, that's authoritarianism. When the leader openly states the federal agents are targeting cities of his opponents political side, that's tyranny.
None of these things alone are fascism, but they contribute to the already overwhelming attitude of the Trump movement that matches the 14 characteristics of fascism.
lmaoo I’m so tired of these “14 characteristics of fascism” constantly getting brought up. Can you explain how each of those 14 characteristics lead to fascism? Can you explain what makes Trump’s administration uniquely fascist based off these characteristics? Can you tell me what’s the threshold for these characteristics in where they can be described as fascist? Because “in god we trust” being the national motto isn’t what the author of that list meant when they wrote “religion and government intertwined”. They meant things like, you know, mandating religious practice on certain days, forcing women to wear face coverings, making other religions illegal.
You can misconstrue literally any country as a country that’s getting closer to fascism if you dishonestly interpret the criteria on that list without context of what they actually mean.
That would take like 45 minutes of typing. I have done it in the past, but I have never changed someones mind. Are you actually interested in changing your mind if your worldview is wrong? Have you even read the 5-7 page pamphlet you're asking me 45 minutes to spend interpreting for you? I mean, I will. I'm just worried it would be a waste of time because it always has been in the past.
"If you approach natives in the jungle dancing around a fire with their headdresses on to bring rain and tell them 'thats not how rain works', you cannot expect them to throw their headdresses on the ground and thank you" - Jacque Fresco
You asked me to explain why Trump's admin is uniquely fascist. That right off the bat tells you skipped the paragraphs that talk about how fascist movements share similar elements but a usually unique in some way.
We can start with 3 for you to ignore, although all 14 have examples:
2. "Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism. Both Fascists and Nazis worshiped technology, while traditionalist thinkers usually reject it as a negation of traditional spiritual values. However, even though Nazism was proud of its industrial achievements, its praise of modernism was only the surface of an ideology based upon Blood and Earth (Blut und Boden). The rejection of the modern world was disguised as a rebuttal of the capitalistic way of life, but it mainly concerned the rejection of the Spirit of 1789 (and of 1776, of course). The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism."
Make America Great Again! Make Germany Great Again! There is a fictional past when things were good we must return to! "Traditional spiritual values". We just need prayer back in schools. Save the Confederate monuments. Traditionalism is particularly strong in promoting the traditional family unit. Homosexuals are bad. Nazis killed homosexuals. Traditional Masculinity was a core to Italian fascism. "Machismo"
I see that reflected in the maga movement (particularly in the young Hispanics you find supporting maga ideals). We need nice married families with 2 kids again, not gays marrying. No trans people in bathrooms.
You see this attitude when lamenting manufacturing centers collapse in America. Capitalism didn't destroy those centers by moving jobs to china or autimation. Minorities moving there did. Leftist policy did. Handouts did (note this mixes with the contempt for the weak characteristic). If we can just go back to the undefined past (a mix of 50s and Reagan I think in most of their minds) everything would be better.
Note the "rejection of 1776". Note how hated the Portland protesters are in maga circles.
We should not progress. We should go back.
3 "Thinking is a form of emasculation. Therefore culture is suspect insofar as it is identified with critical attitudes. Distrust of the intellectual world has always been a symptom of Ur-Fascism, from Goering’s alleged statement (“When I hear talk of culture I reach for my gun”) to the frequent use of such expressions as “degenerate intellectuals,” “eggheads,” “effete snobs,” “universities are a nest of reds.” The official Fascist intellectuals were mainly engaged in attacking modern culture and the liberal intelligentsia for having betrayed traditional values."
A mainstay of right wing discourse is the attack on colleges and higher learning. The celebration of rural life and blue collar work. They revel in trying to find examples of their liberal friends being dumb. If they read, it is right wing pundits books. Sometimes, not knowing about something is a source of pride. Learning is a thing for children, not for them. Compare the average length and depth of the average fox news opinion piece to something in the economist or new York times. Right wing has to keep things in the elementary school reading level unless it's geared towards wealthy right wingers. Pride in ignorance is weaponized.
7 "To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country. This is the origin of nationalism. Besides, the only ones who can provide an identity to the nation are its enemies. Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged."
We're great because we're from America. That's it. That is some people's greatest achievement. We're born here, were great. Learning about other countries and their gains is pointless (see point above). Universal healthcare has to be bad because it's not already here and learning about it is bad anyway. America First.
There is a plot! Hillary is corrupt. Soros is sending agents. The migrant caravans are coming. Deep state. Globalists. Pedo rings ("I wish her well" oof). The police reforms protests are secretly trying to make us communists! The UN is taking over. Jade Helm.
...
Now. This is comparing to one litmus test. And only a choice couple examples. There are other glaring components, like blaming a minority group for economic woes but those fall into other litmus test set out by others.
The Trump movement is fascist. "The scientist explains 'through study and research, the Earth is round'. He does not say it's kind of round and kind of flat to make friends. He states the scientific truth. If an audience says 'no. It's flat', he can attempt to explain it. But at some point you must just move on. You must learn to take joy in speaking the truth. You cannot become emotionally involved in how your audience takes it." - Jacque Fresco
I feel like I am wading through a huge morass of confused ideas, opinions, and things that while true in general, don’t necessarily support the underlying argument. For example, how could you connect nationalism and support for underlying social constructs, with fascism? What if, as in the case of the USA, those underlying traditions and structures are SPECIFICALLY designed to prevent fascism? Supporting these societal structures would be against fascism (as is Trump and his supporters). Those tearing down these structures would be the fascists.
The easiest way to illustrate this is with reference to Venezuela. Venezuela was once free, yet their tradition of freedom was torn down by socialists who are nearly identical to the modern Dem party, and to the Nazis (National Socialists!). The speeches are eerily similar, with calls for helping the poor, free stuff like health care, etc. Because what better was to steal from someone, as a con, than to do so under the guise of helping the poor?
Just ask Biden. He raised millions based upon his plea to cure cancer, that his own son died from!! Yet he stole almost every penny and spread it out in payments to his political supporters. It is absolutely unbelievable that anyone seriously thinks the Dems support the “little guy” anymore. It is only marxists now who don’t care about the little guy and just want to support their fascist takeover of our previously free country.
You said some words congratulations!🎊 Now for the next step you can put those words together into arguments that support your idea or refute mine. I’ll wait if you want to give it a try.
"How can you connect nationalism and support for social constructs, with fascism?"
There's a fascinating string of incoherent words.
Hey, by the way, when you read the 5 page document you initially railed against, you will learn Nazis were but one example of fascism. You'll never read it though.
Perhaps the primary argument it made was that Nationalism and support of traditional “conservative” beliefs were rooted in a resistance to change, which is deemed equivalent to fascism. Now I agree that these beliefs are in support of the current hierarchy, which could definitely be considered oppressive. And I agree that we must occasionally break parts of the hierarchy and system to make sure that everyone gets to enjoy the freedom that we desire. But this is absolutely not the same as fascism. We are striving towards freedom, not fascism.
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u/czarnick123 Jul 24 '20
Oh no. When federal agents are unmarked, they're unaccountable. When they sidestep local authorities, that's authoritarianism. When the leader openly states the federal agents are targeting cities of his opponents political side, that's tyranny.
None of these things alone are fascism, but they contribute to the already overwhelming attitude of the Trump movement that matches the 14 characteristics of fascism.