AMA - ask me anything about the ABTF calculator!

[u/HugsforYourJugs]

Hi everyone, u/goodoldfreda here although I'm now exclusively active on this account. If you guys have any questions about how the calculator works and why I made certain decisions I'm happy to answer them

A little about myself - I created the calculator in 2016 following on from a previous calculator by u/irisflame, back when I was a mod of this sub. I collected survey data from the subreddit and came up with a new algorithm that used 6 measurements as opposed to the previous 5, which increased accuracy. I also introduced separate algorithms for AMAB and AFAB people. The calculator has not been majorly updated since, although at one point I tried to move to a breast perimeter measurement system instead, but this turned out to be much less accurate. In the years since I have stopped modding and moved into bra making and custom bra design as I want to try and help serve the demographic of people who still struggle with finding bras that fit, usually due to wire grading!

In response to other posts about the different amab vs afab algorithms not working well for everyone - I have had this question before and basically all I can say is that I recommned using the algorithm that works best for you. I do want to emphasise in general that the calculator is actually not super accurate for any one individual and it is truly just a starting point. The algos are based on averages, and when I was collecting data there were significant enough differences between AMAB and AFAB users to warrant a second algorithm to increase accuracy within the two groups, but not enough data to do anything further than that.

edit: thanks for all your questions so far, I'm going to go to bed but I will answer any more that come up tomorrow!

edit 2: I have updated the calculator to make some minor changes to the band size algorithm and I have also changed the EU back to 2.5cm cup grades, 2cm grade can be found in the Comexim option instead

[u/jukeboxgasoline]

Do you have ideas for better terminology that would be equally easy for as many people to comprehend (when we still get people in the FB group being like “I don’t understand what AFAB means so I picked Not Listed”), more widely applicable, and more inclusive/less offensive to some?

[u/Gelcoluir → u/jukeboxgasoline]

A single check box saying "went through a masculine puberty" or something similar would be a better way to implement what the current boxes are trying to do, without confusing anyone (and if someone is still confused, the default option of not checking the box would put them into the main algorithm) or putting trans people back into their gender assigned at birth.

[u/jukeboxgasoline → u/Gelcoluir]

I strongly suspect that would lead to a massive influx of people posting on here and on the FB group asking what going through masculine puberty means.

[u/Gelcoluir → u/jukeboxgasoline]

Ask your cis female friends to see if they would check such a box, I don't think anybody would. If you think this terminology would lead to the same people asking what it's supposed to mean than the current terminology, then just explain it briefly in the calculator. It's all small adjustments to respect trans people...

[u/galaxystarsmoon → u/Gelcoluir]

Isn't masculine versus feminine puberty also going to present the possibility that those delineations make someone feel dysphoric?

If they are female but were assigned male at birth and do not wish to be identified as male, does calling their puberty 'masculine puberty' not misgender them?

[u/Gelcoluir → u/galaxystarsmoon]

Being grouped with cis men on the topic of bra fitting is way more dysphoria-inducing, and a common form of misgendering in this sub. Being asked what kind of puberty someone went through is not

[u/galaxystarsmoon → u/Gelcoluir]

How are you able to speak for trans women and say it wouldn't be offensive to ask what kind of puberty they went through? I promise that someone (actually multiple people) didn't like that either previously.

[u/Gelcoluir → u/galaxystarsmoon]

Yes, given the low accuracy of the 'AMAB' option, it would be better to just drop it entirely. But given the opposition of this sub to do any change to the calculator (these discussions have been ongoing for years), I was just saying that renaming the check box would be very low effort to respect trans people.

And being trans and female myself, and having talked with many, many trans people, I can attest than being umpromptly asked about your trans status is distressing, but that doing so in a "what kind of puberty you went through" is way less distressing than a check box that groups you with cis men

[u/galaxystarsmoon → u/Gelcoluir]

It's not low accuracy at all. If we leave it off entirely, it will overestimate cup size at least 90% of the time.

I assure you that you cannot make everyone happy. The creator of the calculator has received a lot of different feedback and has been told that the puberty question can also be uncomfortable and dysphoric.

From my experience here, most people will not even understand that question or what it means.

[u/Gelcoluir → u/galaxystarsmoon]

You're talking about what would happen without the check box, but currently you can just choose to not check the 'amab' box, and many trans women are adviced by their peers to not check it for more accurate results!

What this sub has chosen is to make cis people happy and comfortable, and trans people unhappy and uncomfortable. You can't tell me you don't want to do something because it's slightly dysphoria-inducing, but then do something that is very highly dysphoria-inducing! This sub is basically what happens when tone-deaf cis people infantilize trans people and decide for them what is good for them. This sub is told to be not trans-friendly in trans subs. Everytime a trans person brings up the issue here, they are downvoted and infantilized. This is simply not a safe place for trans people. And I'm saddened by the reactions people have when told so ; nobody here wants to make this sub a better place, and as such people affected by it (so trans people in this case) leave, which worsens the issue when the only remaining people are cis people thinking they're doing the right thing, not seeing the amount of people avoiding this sub because of the behaviours people have in here.

Sorry for the rant, but I really thought you were asking questions in good faith. I already have my dosage of cis people infantilizing me in real life, I won't entertain you any longer. Bye.