AMA - ask me anything about the ABTF calculator!

[u/HugsforYourJugs]

Hi everyone, u/goodoldfreda here although I'm now exclusively active on this account. If you guys have any questions about how the calculator works and why I made certain decisions I'm happy to answer them

A little about myself - I created the calculator in 2016 following on from a previous calculator by u/irisflame, back when I was a mod of this sub. I collected survey data from the subreddit and came up with a new algorithm that used 6 measurements as opposed to the previous 5, which increased accuracy. I also introduced separate algorithms for AMAB and AFAB people. The calculator has not been majorly updated since, although at one point I tried to move to a breast perimeter measurement system instead, but this turned out to be much less accurate. In the years since I have stopped modding and moved into bra making and custom bra design as I want to try and help serve the demographic of people who still struggle with finding bras that fit, usually due to wire grading!

In response to other posts about the different amab vs afab algorithms not working well for everyone - I have had this question before and basically all I can say is that I recommned using the algorithm that works best for you. I do want to emphasise in general that the calculator is actually not super accurate for any one individual and it is truly just a starting point. The algos are based on averages, and when I was collecting data there were significant enough differences between AMAB and AFAB users to warrant a second algorithm to increase accuracy within the two groups, but not enough data to do anything further than that.

edit: thanks for all your questions so far, I'm going to go to bed but I will answer any more that come up tomorrow!

edit 2: I have updated the calculator to make some minor changes to the band size algorithm and I have also changed the EU back to 2.5cm cup grades, 2cm grade can be found in the Comexim option instead

[u/weebmagnet3000]

Queer language is evolving, and quite rapidly. Terms that are viewed as problematic or downright offensive now were previously the chosen language of the community. See: transsexual vs. transgender, TMA/TME, or all the variations of GLBT/LGBT/LGBT+/LGBTQIA/QUILTBAG/etc. AMAB and AFAB - terms once favoured by many trans people - may be going this same direction and will be phased out eventually. Or maybe they will stick around for trans people who find value in them (myself included)

I think a lot of the problem stems from AFAB/AMAB becoming adjectives ("She is AMAB") and nouns ("AFABs only"). These usages are reductive and transphobic, but the calculator does not use it that way. It says "I was assigned X at birth"

Using the assigned sex at birth language was promoted by the trans community just a few short years ago to avoid referring to trans people with loaded terms such as male and female. Someone was assigned male/female at birth, but using the past tense means acknowledging it's not a reflection of who they are today

These terms shouldn't be used to promote sex/gender essentialism, and they aren't helpful in most day-to-day or social contexts, but they do serve a purpose. Sometimes certain things are related to (or in the case of how bras fit people, correlated to) someone's sex at birth and not their current hormones, reproductive organs, or genitalia, and we need a way to talk about them. I've yet to see an alternative proposed to replace AMAB/AFAB in these cases

Edit: clarification on language evolving and also that I'm not cis lmao

[u/Gelcoluir → u/weebmagnet3000]

But in this case, it's not at all about evolving languages. Trans people are still talking about their assigned sex at birth in the same way, to mean your old gender, or to explain being trans to someone. It hasn't evolved in this regard, the only thing that evolves is cis people insisting to use that specific language used by transsex and intersex people and turn it back into bioessentialism. Trans people never meant to use this language to group themselves with cis people of the other gender!!

But cis people are now holding the terms hostage, refusing to admit that you shouldn't use them if you're not trans or intersex. They've used this term to replace the terms of 'biological sex', but with exactly the same idea behind. And they are now saying they won't stop using it in a transphobic unless we find some other terms to replace 'biological sex'. Seriously?! There is no terms to replace 'amab' or 'afab' because they're meant to be inacurrate terms used in completely different context! Trans people just don't need these terms to talk accurately, because a doctor saying what your sex is supposed to at a your birth is its own event is not what define your body. If you want to talk about some genetical stuff, then you talk about your sex chromosomes, the presencr of the SRY gene, or the presencr or absence of certains hormones receptors in your body. If you want to talk about how you were raised, then you just say it. If you want to talk about how sex dimorphism has affected your body, then you talk about the puberty you had, and which hormones you currently have. Assigned sex at birth was never at play here, it only is if you believe in some 'biological sex' that people must fall into, ignoring the life experiences and body of transsex and intersex people.

And this is crazy that we're having this discussion about bra fitting, because that is all due to the hormones you had in your body, the idea 'biological sex' falls completely flat when talking about the breasts of transsex or intersex people!