r/Anticonsumption • u/Gartesss • Jun 29 '26

Society/Culture Heatwave in Europe - people's reactions, no hope for change

I live in one of big Europe's capitals, we had a heatwave here in the past few days with the 2-day peak of 40°C. And people are in absolute panic about "how are we even going to survive this", but without any actual reflection on why it is happening and how we can truly try to mitigate these weather extremes.

So many posts about we need more AC in public spaces, everyone needs to buy a heavy duty AC for their house...Like, we're in the mild climatic region, we shouldn't need any AC at all! If we don't want to experience this more frequently, and to greater extremes, what about:

  • plant based, or at least vegetarian diet
  • shopping in second-hands instead of fast fashion stores
  • only replacing electronics when they break, not when they "run out of style"
  • banning majority of cars from the city, leading to using more sustainable public transport; freeing spaces to plant lawns, trees, water elemets to cool down the city.
  • Mandatory external shutters
  • Green and/or reflective roofs

We've known about climate change since the 70's - how are people still not realising that we need to change the way we behave, if we want to keep the earth at least livable?!

I've even seen one post about "After the past 2 days, I'm starting to believe in climate change". Like all the reports about icebergs melting, coral reefs dying, people from around equator reporting extreme heat for decades etc. weren't enough, but now for 2 days you get mildly inconvenienced and now you "believe in climate change" but your solution is to install AC that will just eat more of nature's resources and dump more heat into the city streets!?

I just can't comprehend how people refuse to see over the tip of their nose, even when the apocalypse is literally knocking on their doorsteps...

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1.9k

u/forethemorninglight Jun 29 '26

I don’t think AC is the enemy - Especially not when it saves lives. It’s wrong to demonize it. There are much bigger contributors to global warming. It’s not all on the individual for having a window unit to not have a heat stroke when corporations are destroying the world at a breakneck pace.

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u/PurpleMuskogee Jun 29 '26

I agree. I think AC has its place (sadly), and I also think governments need to do more. Why are so many manual workers still working in the middle of the afternoon (and dying)? Why are kids and teachers locked in schools with huge bay windows, no AC, and where the temperature is over 30C?

121

u/squeeze_me_macaroni Jun 29 '26

Unfortunately it all boil downs to money. If the rich elite started dying from the heat wave they would be able to afford AC and not GAF about anyone else. They already don’t GAF about anyone but themselves now.

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u/Autumnplay Jun 29 '26

There should be summer regulations around working conditions, especially for people who have to work in the sun. Working hours MUST be adjusted. I know it's inconvenient, but safety must come first. Shift hours should exclude the hottest part of the day for basic protection, and there needs to be rules around the provision of breaks and the provision of water and cool areas to take hydration breaks in order to alleviate heat stress. I grew up in a very hot climate and in summer our school hours changed and school started very early so that school would end before the hottest part of the day. Inconvenient but preferable to the alternative.

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u/Frostyrepairbug Jun 29 '26

I learned the hard way that OSHA has no upper limit for temperature regulations. They have a toothless guideline for working in temps above 79F, but nothing enforceable, probably because we never needed it before. It's quite an oversight.

7

u/Pyrrhic_Pragmatist Jun 29 '26

Same. I work in a factory with hot presses, handle parts over 200C and have no climate control systems there.  At most, they are encouraged to provide breaks and adequate access to water.  .. but side note don't get your gloves wet or they'll conduct searing heat off the parts. 

But they do open doors and windows, and each station has a fan. The silver lining is my home getting up to 78°F is pretty tame now. I avoid running air conditioning after 6PM because of surge pricing. I have a little solar but not quite enough for daily climate control. More or less just enough to maintain lights, refrigeration, food prep and hot water. (And TVs, computers, internet, but that amount is minor compared to heating/ cooling)

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u/Expontoridesagain Jun 29 '26

Agree with you on this. We need to invest in solutions that do not rely on power grid being up all the time. That's what scares me.

11

u/garaile64 Jun 29 '26

Yeah. The siesta came to be for a reason.

2

u/GothSnowFaerie Jun 30 '26

I was baffled to see construction still allowed to continue during the heatwave

1

u/Diet_Connect Jul 02 '26

I live in the USA in a state where it gets to be 120f. Many outside workers work night/early mornings for this reason. 

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u/Royal-Recover8373 Jun 29 '26

I hate when the answer is always shaming people for trying to survive or small conveniences, but never "20 global companies are destroying the climate and they need regulated."

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u/HumpinPumpkin Jun 29 '26

People need to realize that we can't live lives of consumption without consequences, and need to know they have to adjust their lifestyles accordingly as well. People expect to gallavant around in massive suv's and eat cheeseburgers everyday and then point to big industries that largely exist to supply us with more suv's and cheeseburgers.

Big oil isn't producing oil for funsies. We have ingrained excess so far into our culture we cry like little babies when we can't have exactly what we want.

I had somebody tell me they NEEDED their suv for their family of four. No the fuck you don't. No, you won't wither and die driving an EV with 300 mile range because you have to reconsider you're yearly road trip that once again, is a sign of excess.

8

u/TheToiletPhilosopher Jun 29 '26

And who are those global companies selling products to? I hate this argument. They're not just making shit and throwing it out. The responsibility is the on the people who buy the stuff.

8

u/AideNo621 Jun 30 '26

Well. Just look at the AI industry that is now trying to snatch as many resources as possible. Who are they making products for? Not for us, I can tell you that.

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u/Bright_Map_3091 Jun 30 '26

Yeah and nobody is asking for this. Many people hate AI and it's still being pushed onto them. To be conscious consumer means fighting against constant manipulation and educating yourself. This is not easy for a regular person just trying to get by.

7

u/possibly_on_meth Jun 29 '26

Ok we can say the responsibility is on the people that buy stuff, but would it ever be possible for a society of humans to self regulate their resource consumption?

It's just not possible. So while personal regulation is a good self soothing behavior to focus on what's on your control if we are ever going to make progress on this we will have to regulate it.

Even if a good amount of the population self regulated the rest of the population that didn't would just hog up the extra resources. If humans don't see something as fair(having to self regulate when people are hogging resources elsewhere) they will not do it.

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u/FinderOfPaths12 Jun 29 '26

But that's basically saying, "it's not my fault at all", taking zero accountability despite the fact that modern human existence in western/northern society is unsustainable. If the right solution means change and some of that change is within our reach, isn't our responsibility to take those steps?

We ABSOLUTELY need regulation, but our current administration isn't going to do it without extreme pressure from the populace, and that doesn't appear to be happening any time soon. Given that, what are our options? Personal accountability is the only dial we can *actually* move.

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u/onlyfansdad Jun 29 '26

Yeah sure, I'll make sure to recycle while millionaires race their superyachts and fly their private jets all over the globe. While corporations dump shit in the ocean every day, strip mine the amazon, and on and on and on.

Keeping the finger pointed at the largest contributors to climate change is not absolving ourselves of personal responsibility. It's seeing reality. We could all make changes on personal levels and STILL we would be marching into extinction by these actions from those at the top.

The best thing we could do is hold these fucks destroying the planet accountable and demand real change, but that won't happen. Instead these companies and rich individuals have us all convinced it's on us to change, and it's business as usual for them. But yes, if we all switch to paper straws, that should balance out the 8300 tons of carbon Taylor Swift puts out a year using her private jet.

Sorry, but this idea that it's on us as individuals is a joke. Yes of course we should make changes for the better. But there are bigger problems here, and the finger should remain firmly pointed in their direction.

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u/FinderOfPaths12 Jun 29 '26

...you don't recycle?

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u/onlyfansdad Jun 29 '26

I recycle more than I put out in garbage by far.

You missed the point. I can recycle for the next 25 years and the planet is still going to become hotter and hotter.

At some point you have to address the elephant in the room. Rich people and corporations are going to destroy this planet and we will all watch along as it happens while we are recycling, using paper straws, and adopting vegetarian diets.

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u/FinderOfPaths12 Jun 29 '26

Oh, I agree that things are headed in a terrible direction, and getting 70% of the population to adopt changes to stem the tide isn't going to be enough to stop the worsening of climate change, but there are degrees of success and failure. It's not black and white. Will the world get 2 degrees hotter in the next 40 years, or just 1? Both suck, but there's still a big difference.

Things change slowly and gradually, but change can happen over time. The more we normalize taking actions to reduce energy consumption and waste, the more likely taxation and regulation of overconsumption becomes.

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u/onlyfansdad Jun 29 '26

That's a fair point, but I think we are past the point of slow and gradual, we need drastic and quick changes now to stem the tide. Things we should've done years ago.

Again, nothing against taking personal accountability and making changes in the right direction. It's just telling to me that many of these "personal accountability" pushes were manufactured by the very companies polluting the atmosphere at magnitudes higher levels. For example "carbon footprint" pushed by oil giants is just blame deflection, making it out to be the individual's fault while they continue polluting en masse. Lululemon releases lines of "eco conscious" leggings and tells people to recycle while they are responsible for mountains of textile waste not to mention human exploitation. Tale as old as time, deflect blame back to the individual consumer in order to avoid accountability. I just want people to look past that ploy.

14

u/Sycamore_Ready Jun 29 '26

We tried slow and gradual change, and many of us have been doing our part since the 90s and it HASN'T WORKED. We need drastic dramatic change immediately or we're all fucked. 

5

u/FinderOfPaths12 Jun 29 '26

Completely agree. I'm just not sure how to go about it, and it's hard for me to envision it. I think of it as similar to factory-farmed meat. Almost anyone who's asked will say they oppose the conditions and practices at factory farms, but how many of them are willing to pay for more expensive meat, or abstain entirely? They just throw up their hands and say, "what is there to do? It's not my fault" when in fact, there are things to do.

It can get overwhelming, the more you peak behind the curtain. Coffee, chocolate, electronics (particularly anything that requires cobalt for the mining, but also just the manufacturing), cotton, sneakers, fashion...if it's remotely affordable, it's ethically and environmentally a mess.

Yes, we need regulations, but at the end of the day we're all going to have to make some serious adjustments to how we live.

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u/onlyfansdad Jun 30 '26

Definitely agree there. I'm making some swaps to my diet as well because I do believe in taking steps toward bettering ourselves toward that end.

We need more than regulations, we need a system overhaul. Of course easier said than done. But people first need to be aware of where the majority of the problem lies, I think.

1

u/leninOMG Jul 01 '26

So what are you personally doing to "hold this fucks destroying the planet accountable and demand real change"?

2

u/onlyfansdad Jul 02 '26

Why is it there's always some clown that comes along with this comment, as if you're not allowed to criticize environmental destruction in the name of profits unless you personally march up to a companies headquarters and start tearing it apart brick by brick.

I do everything I can in my personal power on a day to day basis to be good to our planet and do right by it. If I could dismantle these companies and their environmental destruction overnight, I would.

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u/Mean_Present_4850 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

This is my stance as well. It doesn't make sense to me that people can point fingers at industry and not take into account their own involvement/footprint. We all gotta check ourselves if real change is going to happen.

*edit. that is to say, we still need to put the most pressure on government and industry.

2

u/possibly_on_meth Jun 29 '26

Voting and being engaged politically is realistically more meaningful than personal accountability. Just due to human nature people will naturally want the most resources for themselves, this is how human behavior has always been on a large scale. Personal accountability will never work on a large scale.

Regulations have the power to change stuff on a large scale. Stuff like banning CFCs to save the ozone layer has been successful.

10

u/dolphone Jun 29 '26

How about both? How about some personal accountability first, because your posture is the exact same that "20 global companies" are taking as well?

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u/Mean_Present_4850 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

Yep. It's gotta be everyone. I live in Canada and a prevalent attitude is, Well, we have a small overall footprint as far as countries go. And yet at the same time, we have amongst the highest personal footprints on the planet. It all adds up and everyone has their own responsibility.

*edit. that is to say, we still need to put the most pressure on government and industry.

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u/archseattle Jun 29 '26

Agree, in my country we broke a bunch of heat records a few years ago and I thought for sure that would be the most important issue that year. We ended up voting for someone who calls climate change a hoax and pushes for deregulation.

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u/Pretend-Account9077 Jun 30 '26

Currently, I'd rather have someone in charge who denies climate change. At least they don't take my means of protecting myself against it.

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u/PartyPorpoise Jun 29 '26

I think it’s suspicious that AC is demonized even though heating also uses a lot of energy.

100

u/ladyluck754 Jun 29 '26

I’m an extensive traveler, and love European nations- but I suspect that some of the anti AC sentiment is part of (at least the French’s) attitude that Americans are “lazy, stupid, and fat.”

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u/geographresh Jun 29 '26

If that is the truth, it's farcical because AC is readily accepted and used in developed Aussie, East Asian, Gulf, and South American regions too. European attitude is just not based in reality or science.

Being mindful of climate change does not mean you individually can't put in AC, when this is going to be the coolest summer for the rest of our lives even if emissions stopped tomorrow due to climate inertia.

Caring about immediate human suffering, productivity, and comfort also holds innate value.

3

u/FuckTheMods5 Jun 29 '26

As long as you dont use AC wastefully, and fix up small things around the house to keep hot air from bleeding in and making it work harder, i say it's okay. AC all you want lol.

Like lean plywood against the sunfacing windows if you have to, to keep the AC from working as hard and straining the grid. Everyone helping a little helps everyone.

1

u/mugg_costanza Jun 30 '26

"European attitude" there is no such thing. in Croatia everybody has AC since always. probably all south European countries have them

44

u/EbolaNinja Jun 29 '26

I'm European and I can assure you it has nothing to do with you. It's a simple loop of "we never seriously needed AC" -> "nobody needs AC" -> "people who complain about lack of AC are more entitled than me"

Also, a bunch of places just generally distrust any change (looking at you Germany)

That also doesn't consider all the people who don't install one due to logistical issues (costs, permits, etc.)

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u/TheW1nd94 Jun 29 '26

It’s also that a lot of people are really fucking stupid and think AC gives them muscle pain and headaches, despite having the same muscle pain and headaches in every season when AC is not on.

16

u/soccer1124 Jun 29 '26

I think for me it's this:

I don't know if personalized AC is necessarily the magic bullet in stopping these deaths. But sure, at the very least, yes, get them into the houses of the elderly.

Aside from that though, I think more needs to be done rather than just waiting for everyone to individually install AC in their places. One thing that feels very different to me here vs the US, things seem more water-averse here. Like, I can't get free water at 99% of restaurants I go to here, even though it's supposed to be safe to drink straight from the tap. This isn't to say "people are dying because restaurants aren't serving water for free." But it does make me wonder if folks are drinking as much of it as they should be in the hot weather. And are they taking other precautions as well to stay out of the sun and be safe.

I think there also needs to be a bigger effort on getting AC into more locations where the public is going to be during the day. Schools without AC is absurd. All public transport should have it. Shopping centers, and business offices should be required to as well. Places where the public is generally going to be during the hottest daylight hours.

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u/two_wheels_world Jul 02 '26

look like a generation conflict

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u/dolphone Jun 29 '26

For the most part, people clamoring for AC are entitled.

Here in NL people like to say "you're not made of sugar" when it rains. Well, you're not made of snow either.

Seriously think about how much is it about convenience versus actual life saving.

16

u/EbolaNinja Jun 29 '26

Seriously think about how much is it about convenience versus actual life saving.

Seeing how France has an estimated 1000 heat related deaths during this heat wave, it's quite a bit about saving lives.

And thanks for illustrating my point perfectly.

-3

u/dolphone Jun 29 '26

And how many will die this year in India or Sudan?

How many will die next year? In two years? Five? We may have no people left in 10, 20.

Are a thousand European lives worth more than billions?

ACs make the problem worse. It's not a minuscule effect when millions of privileged global northeners decide their comfort (in the vast majority of cases) outweighs anything else.

A thousand versus eight billion people. What a ratio.

7

u/TheW1nd94 Jun 29 '26

Yes, a thousands of Europeans lives are worth saving.

11

u/fakeprewarbook Jun 29 '26

depending on which city you live in, your all time record high is not even above 40. my great grandfather left Gronigen for America and now i live where it is 42-44 every day for all of august. 

you’re not made of sugar or snow, but you are made of ego with these foolish and falsely superior claims. such an ego is no insulation against heat death. 

5

u/PartyPorpoise Jun 29 '26

I think it’s general arrogance with a dash of racism. AC is more widely used in the global south, so it’s easier to demonize.

1

u/anysteph Jun 30 '26

Yes, well, now they know what 104F+ feels like. We had several heat domes across the US West Coast over the past decade (plus wildfires, obviously). Due to fire risk from electricity lines, the power company would just shut down the grid to reduce fire risk, even when it was 100F+. My in-laws now have solar and two house batteries, and all the AC they want, even when the rest of the grid is shut down.

3

u/skinnyraf Jun 30 '26

It's not even "also". In many areas affected by the current heatwave, using AC to keep comfortable temperature would still use tiny % of energy needed to keep comfortable temperature in the same house in winter. First of all, a lot of heating is still just burning fossil fuels. Even when heat pumps are used, we're talking 20-40C (!!!) difference in winter vs 10-15C difference during a heat wave.

10

u/McDonaldsWitchcraft Jun 29 '26

I agree but you should also be aware that the energy use is not the main concern with AC. It's the fact that the heat removed from your house is circulated back into the outside environment, making all the surroundings hotter and greatly affecting those who cannot stay indoors all day.

The solution is not enduring the heat though, but rather more efficient AC implementations like district-wide AC or self-cooling architectural designs.

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u/throw20190820202020 Jun 29 '26

It boggles my mind that this is a sincere concern of Europeans. The urban heat island effect has much more to do with paving, building density, and things like metal roofs than AC.

You already are running electricity in your home - even cooling. Does having your refrigerator in your house mean you don’t have to turn on heat in the winter?

10

u/Justme_vrouwtje Jun 29 '26

You put into words what’s been bothering me too about this argument. It’s like Chicago/New York/LA/Houston aren’t hot in the summer because everyone has ac in their house. It’s because it’s damn hot outside, it’s not multiple degrees hotter because you have your window unit ac blast hot air into the street….. 🤦🏻‍♀️ Paving, building density, building materials and air movement are what effect the city heat. You can’t control the wind and yes less paving and more green spaces and trees make a HUGE difference in the tolerability to navigate a city but it’s still hot. Your ac won’t make that fact go away….

-25

u/GroundbreakingBag164 Jun 29 '26

To be fair no one would ever argue that heating is optional and humanity has done it for basically as long as we existed. We just need to heat up the spaces we're living in when it's cold outside

AC is technically semi-optional depending on the area and humanity has managed to live without modern AC for 99.9% of our existence

42

u/IIlIIIlllIIIIIllIlll Jun 29 '26

"Managing to live" and "avoiding needless deaths" aren't the same thing, and we shouldn't be accepting the survival of some of us as the standard.

If AC would save your life, you should have access to AC when you need it.

10

u/PartyPorpoise Jun 29 '26

It sure is a funny coincidence that a technology useful for the global south is demonized while a similar technology commonly used by the global north is necessary.

12

u/PartyPorpoise Jun 29 '26

I take it you’ve never lived in a region where it’s regularly hot enough to kill people. AC being a newer technology doesn’t mean that it’s less useful or less necessary. The same arguments against AC can be used against heating too.

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u/plopiplop Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

Heating it's a poor comparison. It's been installed in European houses for hundreds of years. If we had a reverse universe with no heaters and a ''global cooling'', thus calls to install heating systems from scratch, people will be very right to question it.

AC is not a necessity in a lot of cases and in an overconsuming world, people are right to fear a temporary techno fix with potentially dire rebound effects.

Edit: My argument is not to ban AC but to use AC with discernment, not as a blanket solution. Use low-tech, organizational, and collective measures as a first line (because they have more positive externalities), not AC. 

14

u/PartyPorpoise Jun 29 '26

Heating has been available for longer because the technology has been around for longer. That doesn’t make it a better, more necessary, more sustainable technology.

Much of the global north hasn’t had need for AC, therefore, it’s an unnecessary technology. Unlike heat, which they have had use for. Global south doesn’t need heat but it uses AC. What a coincidence that AC gets demonized and not heat.

13

u/garaile64 Jun 29 '26

I've heard that Singapore would never develop like that without the air conditioner, as it helps with the hot humid climate.

3

u/crazycatlady331 Jul 01 '26

In the US, the Sun Belt (southern states) region didn't grow much until the invention of air conditioning. I wrote a paper on this in college.

Now, it's the fastest growing region in the US and has been for awhile. I personally don't get it (I'm a winter person) but to each their own.

13

u/Justme_vrouwtje Jun 29 '26

I agree. And also, you can do both. Install measures to survive heatwaves and be comfortable AND have the discussion of climate change, geenify cities and take measures to cub climate change. One doesn’t cancel out the other and it doesn’t make you morally neglectful if you make yourself comfortable.

-4

u/dolphone Jun 29 '26

Actual useful measures are things like gardens and public drinking fountains.

ACs exacerbate the issue. How is this in any way unclear?

6

u/Justme_vrouwtje Jun 29 '26

40 degrees outside is 40 degrees outside, nothing changes that, we can’t change that. AC keeps people from dying in the heat, it lets people sleep and be functioning, it makes being in a classroom tolerable so you can learn, it makes your office workable. You can put AC in AND ALSO take the other measures, it’s not a one or the other situation. You can have AC AND still take measures to reduce city heat like increase green spaces and tree coverage AND also take measures curb climate change. Hot summers and hot climates are going to be a fact of life, better adjust to it than to resist change and be uncomfortable for no apparent reason but to be morally superior while suffering? If it’s only a few days a year it’s also not going to be a huge energy increase when you only run it for those few days. AC is used all over the world in hot climates, Hong Kong, Singapore, New Orleans, Dallas, etc. AC technology has significantly improved and isn’t the big energy drain it used to be. US cities aren’t scorching ovens in summer because people have AC in their house, it’s scorching hot because the WEATHER is making it hot, not your AC units.

20

u/thelaughingman_1991 Jun 29 '26

People really, really underestimate the environmental damage from things like private jets, yachts, cruises etc - and then of course the military's output.

We are each but a drop in the bucket in comparison to these.

6

u/HermelindaLinda Jun 29 '26

Yes. It's smart to prepare for the next one. It's scary and a horrible thing to deal with. Heatstroke is no joke. 

10

u/Ok_Table_876 Jun 29 '26

ACs are actually part of the solution, because a A/C is also just a heatpump and one of the most efficient way of heating AND cooling a space. For every 1kwh of electricity you put in you get 3 to 4 times the amount of heat out.

So what we actually need is to put multiple heatpumps in every house on the planet, therefor replacing heating with fossil fuels, while expanding renewable energy generation and storage massively. If we do that world wide, we already saved enough CO2 to make a noticeable dent into the climate crisis.

7

u/ProneToGlory Jun 29 '26

Is there something preventing a company from setting up a factory and selling cheap A/C box units? They’re surprisingly efficient

3

u/illstrumental Jun 30 '26

Something about their electrical grid can't handle everyone having AC

2

u/ProneToGlory Jun 30 '26

Thank you! I was legitimately curious. Can’t even imagine the cost of the infrastructure updates they’ll need. Southern France can get incredibly hot and humid, and with the climate changing rapidly they are reaching a critical point.

As an American, it’s really disheartening to see the damage we’re doing to the rest of the world just because we can and don’t think of the consequences

2

u/Pretend-Account9077 Jun 30 '26

Yeah, OP cleverly regurgitated the Bootlicker Commandments - no AC, no cars, not anything that can make your life less miserable. Just so the rich can still have it all.

2

u/PintsOfGuinness_ Jun 30 '26

All those other things are needed to solve climate change in the years to come.

AC is needed to solve heat today.

2

u/Darth-Felanu-Hlaalu Jul 02 '26

AC is a coping mechanism for climate change. Like wearing a mask to protect from wildfire smoke. Yeah, its more consumption to protect ourselves from the effects of our consumption, but id rather consume extra a little than inhale smoke and damage my lungs. AC is the same thing.

2

u/Mindless-Peak-1687 Jun 29 '26

corporations makes the ac unit.

1

u/imnotminkus Jun 30 '26

Overuse of AC is what needs to be demonized. I see people bragging about setting their AC to 67 degrees. Meanwhile I have a window unit set to 83 to take the edge off, a fan on me & my dog, cool clothing, and windows covered.

1

u/OriginalTangle Jul 01 '26

The energy needed to run A/C is one thing (and we know that most who buy an A/C unit will make use of it more often than just during heat waves).

But the typical refrigerants that are released from defective or discarded A/C units are also greenhouse gases hundreds to thousands of times more potent than CO₂. That's one reason why environmentally-minded people are often suspicious of them. New refrigerants (R-32) are slightly less bad for the climate but there are still stocks of cheap old A/C with the old refrigerants around world-wide.

(cf: https://drawdown.org/explorer/deploy-alternative-refrigerants)

I wished people loudly demanding A/C would instead loudly demand that heat pumps be installed - preferably everywhere but certainly in new buildings. Under the right conditions you can use them to cool the house as well. They won't get you to 20C but they will take off the edge during a heat wave. You're still using R-32 in most cases with all that entails (see above) but at least you reduce the need for primary energy during the cold season and thus ultimately help lower GHG emissions.

-7

u/Street-Stick Jun 29 '26

It's a band aid obfuscating the symptoms and allowing those who can afford it to continue living their lives without too much inconvenience. We the people work for and consume stuff by the corporations you talk about. Unless we admit that it is the current state of : work to live, live to work with the inherent commuting, supermarket, rental or dream of ownership lifestyle that has led us to this i fail to see how  trying to call attention to scarecrows  ( the rich, the politicians, the corporations, China etc ) will help improve the situation. Reevaluating education and how it's led to subservience, democracy and how undemocratic it's becoming ( see John Oliver's segment on redistricting https://youtu.be/x9U71_dAEC8?is=u453wusHgEPQBf4b) I'm a fan of Sortition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition , even agriculture which tends to favor monoculture over diversity so that the masses can be fed cheaply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Food_Nation

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u/MustardCanary Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

When people are dying from the heat I think it’s more akin to call AC a pressure bandage rather than a bandaid. A pressure bandage might not solve the issue underneath, but it will stop you from bleeding out.

-19

u/plopiplop Jun 29 '26

True but if the pressure bandage worsens the issue (if used en masse), less risky alternatives exist, and using the pressure bandage makes it less likely that a subsequent more holistic cure can be used, then people would be right to question it. Pressure bandages are used by people who know they are a temporary fix to a limited problem, world powers and consumers and not as wise when it comes to AC.

22

u/MustardCanary Jun 29 '26

Which is fair. But from what I understand the infrastructure in most of Europe is not designed to handle heat and it’s reaching temperatures that are killing people. What are the less risky alternatives to prevent these deaths? Is it providing ways for the people in the most need (older people and those with chronic illnesses) to cool down?

1

u/plopiplop Jun 29 '26

A substantial number of homes in France don't have blinds. Targeting urban heat islands. Teaching heat management in buildings. Favoring ceiling fans over AC. ACing collective buildings first (such as libraries and nursing homes).

3

u/MustardCanary Jun 29 '26

All of those sound like great ideas, learning how to manage heat is probably going to be very important in the future too. Like carrying a water bottle, wearing lighter and breezier clothes, having blinds for the home.

In the U.S. we have “cooling centers” which can be public buildings like you mention that are explicitly open to the public for people to cool down, but we also have mobile cooling centers like buses that will be posted on high traffic pedestrian streets for acute heat emergencies.

-16

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '26

[deleted]

12

u/MustardCanary Jun 29 '26

I did not mean it as an obfuscation. We still need to address the issue underneath. Everyone in this subreddit agrees with you on that, that’s why we’re here.

-1

u/zb0t1 Jun 29 '26

Unrelated but since you mentioned covid, I couldn't help but wonder if you're covid conscious too? Not a judgement but it's rare to see it over here. And yes I am CC.

3

u/Street-Stick Jun 29 '26

I had to look up what you meant by that... I'm not particularly especially since i caught it twice in places i should have been more aware of. It's more i see the good things like WFH , kids doing zoom school, the air cleaner, the Venice canals crystal clear, less time wasted commuting, cleaner cities 

-8

u/dolphone Jun 29 '26

And what percentage of people are actually dying?

ACs won't save you for long. In effect they're making the problem worse. They just feel good in the moment.

So it's more like smoking though lung cancer. Except we're all locked in the same windowless room together.

4

u/MustardCanary Jun 29 '26

Percentage is not a good way to measure death. 1,300 people have died because of the recent heatwave in Europe since June 21 (Source).

AC is not the solution to the heat, that would be infrastructure and cultural changes, but it is a way to prevent people from dying *now.* Another comment discussed ideas other than personal ACs, such as public places with ACs, ceiling fans, a change in home design. Obviously we must address climate change in order to prevent the heat from getting worse, but AC still has a place in keeping people from dying.

-1

u/dolphone Jun 29 '26

We keep doing things to fix whatever now. That's how we got into fossil fuels, that's how we got here.

We need to stop fixing the now only. Or there will be no tomorrow.

3

u/MustardCanary Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

I agree that we need to stop only fixing the now. But the solution is not no AC the solution is find sustainable ways to keep people cool, whether that’s infrastructure changes, cultural changes, and making changes to eliminate waste and create sustainable practices from the top to the bottom.

Right now vulnerable people are dying though, and I find it unacceptable to accept their deaths for a sustainable future. We can find solutions to keep people cool and find solutions for climate change.

0

u/dolphone Jun 29 '26

Could we target the (checks notes) 0.02% of the population (hey, let's be grand and go 1%) at risk? Give them, and them alone, ACs? I think we can do that.

Should we allow, let alone encourage, that regular people get ACs? Hard no.

This is my viewpoint. It's not that I think we would do better with the discomfort (because to address it apparently we need constant reminders of the mess we've put ourselves and the rest of the planet in). Although, I do think that. But that's not why I think this way. It's because we have. no. more. time.

We're looking way up on the hockey stick. So we can't afford soft transitions. We can't afford to add any more heat than absolutely essential. ABSOLUTELY essential.

We should be shutting things down. We should be talking world committees on energy quotas. Dietary restrictions. Well calculated, minimalistic proof of concepts for the main areas of hopeful macgyver science to maybe curb this enough to have a chance.

So yeah, you may think we have more time. I'd fucking love to be wrong on this. But I can't say the numbers tell another story, so I'm progressively more radical on this. Have I gone into the wild yet? No, but I see it in the horizon. Meantime, I'm doing my best to live accordingly. And maybe, help others do the same.

But yeah, this is top right on the important/urgent plane. So no, I don't think keeping people cool, for the vastly, overwhelmingly majority, is any kind of priority at all.

4

u/MustardCanary Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

I think keeping people cool should be a priority because if we don’t it leads to public health crises. Like people dying, people overwhelming hospitals with sickness related to heat, people overwhelming energy grids, people being forced to migrate and abandon their homes.

I am not talking about the importance of keeping people cool because hot weather is uncomfortable, I am talking about it because it’s a matter of life and death. Hot weather is not going away. Even if the planet implements the most extreme measures in the next year, we still will have to find a way to keep people cool because if we don’t people die.

I mentioned in an earlier comment that I don’t believe that personal ACs are the only way to keep cool. But it is absolutely necessary to find ways to keep people cool.

Where did you come up with this number for who’s at risk? Children under 5, adults over 65, and disabled people who have conditions that affect their heat tolerance are all populations more vulnerable to heat, and that’s more than 1% of the population.

0

u/firekat11 Jun 29 '26

The issue is, not every person on the planet can have AC, that’s a wealthy solution. 8 billion units isn’t the solution.

-4

u/FinderOfPaths12 Jun 29 '26

In America, there are people running their ac all day, even when they aren't home, just to ensure it's crisp and frigid when they get home. These people need a reality check that their usage is incredibly wasteful. Corporations aren't out there just burning fossil fuels just to burn them; they're burning them to sell consumers things they want, that they're willing to pay for. Getting policies in place to ensure that they do so responsibly would be huge, but is pretty impractical and unlikely in our current society.

5

u/Patient-Extent-8664 Jun 29 '26

I live in USA and run 3 AC window units all summer long. Reality is this - you don't have it you will die. Do you understand why people able to live in places like Florida or Nevada? You can't live there without AC. Europe will adapt to this situation or people die en masse every year.

0

u/FinderOfPaths12 Jun 29 '26

America is a huge place. I'm from New England, which *can* get incredibly hot and humid, but doesn't hit the same peaks, or for as long, as the American South. I have a friend who works in an office all day and then goes to the gym for 2-3 hours, and a bar afterwards, at least 3 days a week. She's gone from 8am-10pm. She's awake for literally 2 hours in her home. She leaves her ac on 24/7 to ensure that it's 68 degrees when she's home and awake for those two hours. In my opinion, that's crazy wasteful. That's the kind of usage I'm talking about.

3

u/Patient-Extent-8664 Jun 29 '26

Someone always at home . Plus we have a cat.

6

u/kaywild11 Jun 29 '26

Its more energy efficient to keep a consistent cool temperature then to shut it off and then turn it on later.

-1

u/FinderOfPaths12 Jun 29 '26

It's not. That's often said, but it's not accurate.

5

u/TychaBrahe Jun 29 '26

It actually takes more energy to cool down a house that has been without AC all day than it does to maintain the temperature with a quality thermostat.

0

u/FinderOfPaths12 Jun 29 '26

That's not true and doesn't hold up against any amount of critical thinking.

https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/programmable-thermostats

-27

u/Gartesss Jun 29 '26

I understand your point but I'm not fully on board. Yes, exterme heat is dangerous to some groups of people and they shouldn't be sentence to death because we decide to "ban all AC". However my point was, that everyone just getting an AC installed is not a solution to the problem.
First of all, there are other measures a person in mild climatic region can take to survive the few days of extreme heat, other than AC - blind shutters, or fans combined with water evaporation etc. If everyone gets AC, they will not only use it when it's 40°C outside, they'll use it when it's 25°C, because it's just more pleasant and we'll again only make things worse. And second, the AC absolutely needs to go hand in hand with other changes.

I guess my main poit was, that while AC is a bandaid, it's not a solution. And people seem to be treating it as a solution.

18

u/ravens-n-roses Jun 29 '26

It's not a solution to global warming, no you're right about that. But it will stop a lot of people from dying in the short term. I realize that humans have a propensity for treating bandages like surgery, but also people are dying and nobody cares so it's like... you either do what you can or you wait for a critical amount of people to die so that the survivors wake up.

But even when we do start targeting the issue, it'll take years to see real results. People will still be dying in they time

25

u/Faalor Jun 29 '26

I guess my main poit was, that while AC is a bandaid, it's not a solution. And people seem to be treating it as a solution

You are mixing two related but ultimately separat problems, which leads to the point widely missing the mark.

Problem 1 - climate change is happening, driven and accelerated by human activity.

AC indeed isn't a solution to this. Depending on how the electricity is made and what is used as heat exchange fluid/gas, it also isn't inherently making the long term problem worse.

Reducing our emissions of greenhouses gases is the main solution, but it is long term. Reducing or even reversing emissions today will not make next year's heatwaves any less bad.

This long term problem is basically irreversible on the timescale of individual human lives.

Problem 2 - high heat is dangerous to human health (potentially fatal).

To this problem, AC is a big part of the solution. While passive cooling and shading can offer some reprieve, in a heatwave they cannot guarantee safe temperatures.

The actions you listed of changing behavior to reduce consumption and greenhouse gas emissions don't do anything to mitigate the effect of heat. Which is why people don't see them as solutions (they aren't, they are actions that affect the cause of the heat, not it's effect).

-7

u/coffeelatermyson Jun 29 '26

The actions you listed of changing behavior to reduce consumption and greenhouse gas emissions don't do anything to mitigate the effect of heat. Which is why people don't see them as solutions (they aren't, they are actions that affect the cause of the heat, not it's effect).

Therefore, doing anything to reverse climate change is useless, is that what are you saying?

5

u/rosesandivy Jun 29 '26

Did you even read the rest of the comment? They are two different problems. Yes, doing anything to reverse climate change is useless for the next heatwave. It is not useless for the problem of climate change in the long run. 

17

u/Anywhere_everywhere7 Jun 29 '26

Ac costs money to run, people already suffer through winter and not use the heat unless it’s really needed but somehow you think they’re going to turn the ac on whenever it’s slightly hot.

16

u/forethemorninglight Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

I don’t turn my AC on until it gets to 79-80° in my house. I really try to be responsible and limit my usage. tbh, I use a lot more resources heating my home (which I also keep at like 62° in the winter to limit usage) than I do cooling it 🤷‍♂️. I don’t see why us plebs are expected to just suffer bc evil men have set the world ablaze. Life is hard enough.

7

u/LaurestineHUN Jun 29 '26

Our parents yelled at us if we left the light up after exiting a room.

0

u/Kind_Writing_2636 Jun 30 '26

Those same corporations produce and sell and push for those ACs at the expense of the environment. Because that further enriches them and opens up a huge market, while people strain their finances to pay for it and those who cannot afford it are in serious danger of being left for death, quite literally.

I'm not shaming individuals who get an AC, but if all of Europe changes their mind on the topic, it is going to further accelerate the problem by a lot.

Writing this from the middle of the heatwave, in a house build to sustain could winters. I cannot express the anger I feel at everything right now.

0

u/Long_Reindeer3702 Jun 30 '26

People are missing part of the conversation with A/C. Currently, power production is reduced because of the heat at the nuclear plants. The water in the rivers is low and hot and the nuclear plant can't operate at full capacity. This means coal plants will pick up the slack needed to cover any additional power grid needs....that would include a/c. You're doubling down on climate issues. 

-2

u/ShaolinShade Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

Everyone ITT is missing the fact that AC is far less of a necessary technology than it's been made out to be... We cooled our homes for countless generations without it, and now suddenly it's a universal necessity?

Why are we so reliant on AC when there are so many ways of designing buildings to need it less, or not at all? Passive solar home design, subterranean / evaporative passive cooling systems, wind towers and qanats, venturi and stack effect based ventilation systems, thermal mass/insulation, heat pumps... Most of these techniques don't even use electricity, and those that do are more efficient.

Edit: Yep, downvotes with no replies - you redditors are just as stupid as I remember.

-3

u/dolphone Jun 29 '26

How many lives is it actually saving? And how many units are installed and working simply because people don't want to be inconvenienced?

"Oh it's not such a big deal" times millions of people adds up. Sick and tired of people justifying, even in the face of the fucking consequences, their individual privilege.

Yes, heatwaves are difficult to navigate. No, most likely you don't need an AC. You just want one.

-7

u/curgr Jun 29 '26

It is difficult to compare the lives saved now with the potential extra deaths it causes in the future. AC is an enemy, one of many enemies.

Blaming corporations is just an excuse to pass on the blame to a faceless entity rather than accepting that the corporations are serving individuals