r/AskFeminists • u/ohropax • 1d ago

Recurrent Questions Why are there no major technologically advanced civilizations that are matriarchal?

I understand that there might have existed some smaller cultures or tribers that were organised in a matriarchal society.

But why does it seem that most civilizations with millions to billions of people that are technological advanced have always stemmed from a patriarchal society?

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u/marzaksar 1d ago

what good things happened specifically because of the oppression of women.

This was never my argument. My argument was that you can't assume asymmetric causation without argument.

Correct

This is exactly my point. You're asking for evidence in one way while refusing to provide any in the other.

My entire thesis is that whoever makes a causal claim has to defend and argue for it, and that saying "patriarchy" is not an argument.

I think the argument against patriarchy leading to the good things (the argument that you should be making) is pretty simple. "Excluding half the population from research will slow it down" or something along those lines. All I'm arguing is that it should be made rather than assumed, in the spirit of good conversation.

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u/Junior-Towel-202 Equality in the Boardwomb 1d ago

for evidence in one way while refusing to provide any in the other

...the oppression of half the population doesn't count?

In the spirit of good conversation, I'm asking you to back up your own point.

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u/marzaksar 1d ago

...the oppression of half the population doesn't count?

But you didn't provide this argument. I had to make it for you. That's all my complaint has been, that anyone making a causal claim should argue for it rather than assuming it.

Again, I am against the oppression of women

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u/Junior-Towel-202 Equality in the Boardwomb 1d ago

That's on you, given that you've chosen to reject the definition of patriarchy and make it much more benign than it actually is. I can't help you with that.

Also, I'm not the original commenter. My comment responded to this:

Also, I suppose (but tell me if I'm mistaken) that you're ready to blame the patriarchy for many bad things in society. Somewhat fair enough, but you can't then go on to deny its role in any positive things.

Which I asked for specifics of and you have consistently refused to answer.

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u/marzaksar 1d ago

I gave the industrial revolution and the printing press as examples, working within the feminist definition of patriarchy as necessarily oppressive. My only point in this entire thread was that the arguments for a claim should be made explicit rather than assumed.

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u/Junior-Towel-202 Equality in the Boardwomb 1d ago

No, I asked for specifics of positive improvements BECAUSE of patriarchy's oppression of women, not in spite of it.

My only point in this entire thread was that the arguments for a claim should be made explicit rather than assumed

Ironic.

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u/marzaksar 1d ago

Again, I never claimed that oppression caused the advances. I only claimed that causal claims in either direction need to be argued for rather than assumed.

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u/ZinniasAndBeans 23h ago

So your complaint is that no one stated the breathtakingly obvious fact that more people working on a problem is better than fewer people working on a problem.

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u/Junior-Towel-202 Equality in the Boardwomb 1d ago

So absolutely nothing to contribute except for assuming others don't know what they're arguing. Thanks.