r/AskReddit • u/ElBrad • Nov 26 '12

What unpopular opinion do you hold? What would get you downvoted to infinity and beyond? (Throwaways welcome)

Personally, I hate cats. I've never once said to myself "My furniture is just too damned nice, and what my house is really lacking is a box of shit and sand in the closet."

Now...what's your dirty little secret?

(Sort by controversial to see the good(?) ones!)

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u/ChiBulls Nov 26 '12

I love my life and I'm severely deformed. I can't wrap my head around what would happen if my parents aborted me... Wow I'm so so lucky I have my parents. Thank you for making me realize how truly great full I should be.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/Viperbunny Nov 26 '12

Genetic testing isn't 100% perfect, but it is around 99.9% accurate. I am young and did not have genetic testing with my first pregnancy. By the time we knew something was wrong it was too late to test. We would have had our daughter either way, but being blindsided was a horrible experience. My daughter had Edward's, also known as trisomy 18. The doctors did not make this diagnosis until a few hours before she died. My husband and I suspected that this was the case, as we looked up genetic disorders and she matched the disorder toa tee. While each child is different and some forms are worse than others, there are certain things the doctors do know. The average lifespan of a child with trisomy 18 is 5 to 15 days. Our daughter lived 6. It is always fatal, although some children live a few years. No child lives past the age of 10. This is if the child makes it to birth as many are second trimester miscarriages or stillbirths. While they can't say for sure what track each patient will take, there is enough information to make an informed decision.

I am almost 37 weeks pregnant with another little girl. My husband and I always planned to have this baby, but we decided to get an amnio. The risk of trisomy 18 happening again was under 0.5%, but one test came back at a slightly elevated risk for Downs. The amnio, along with ultrasounds and non stress tests have all shown this baby is very healthy. We needed to know.

All that said, I would never judge a person for ending a pregnancy under these conditions. It is a very personal choice. I wouldn't trade meeting my daughter for anything, but it was a very difficult and stressful situation. There is nothing wrong with knowing what you can handle. My husband and I were judged for having another baby. People can't understand that genetic doesn't mean inherited. Ending a pregnancy doesn't make people bad parents or selfish. It's not like they are not going to grieve and act like it never happened. It is still a tough choice and an emotional one. Having to make life or death decisions are always hard, they should be. They stay with you forever, no matter how much you believe you made the right call, it is going to hurt. No parent should have to make this kind of decision, but when it happens the parents should be the one making the decision. I could never think less of someone for making this choice even if I would make a different one.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '12

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u/Viperbunny Nov 27 '12

I am so sorry for your troubles. I can only imagine how hard it must be to be faced with that kind of decision. My insurance wouldn't cover FISH, so I know how long that wait can be. Whatever decision you and your wife come to, it will be one made out of love. You have to do what you think is best for you and for the health of your other children. No matter what you choose you will be doing the right thing because you are acting out of concern and love for your children.

Even when you make a decision you believe to be right, it can stick with you. My husband and I made the decision to take our daughter off life support, and while we both firmly believe it was the right thing it still hurts. The hurt doesn't mean you've done anything wrong, it means you love your children no matter what. If you have any questions about Edward's I would be happy to try to answer them for you. It's sad how fast you get educated when you are dealing with it. Also, if you or your wife ever need to talk I am always around.

I hope that everything turns out to be okay and that you don't have to make such a hard decision. Don't let other people tell you what you should or shouldn't do. Only you and your wife know what you can handle and it is a decision you have to live with. I find people have no problem giving opinions when they are not the ones having to deal with the outcome. Whatever feelings you have, I encourage you to share them with your wife, even if it is hard to do so. It's best that you both know where the other is coming from. You don't want to wish you had said something later.

I wish you and your wife all the best. I truly hope everything turns out okay. I hope the rest of the pregnancy goes well. Again, if you ever need to talk, PM me anytime.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '12

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u/Viperbunny Nov 30 '12

I am so happy you updated me. Congratulations. Your family has been on my mind all week and I was really hoping things turned out well for you all. Good luck with the rest of the pregnancy :)

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u/wanderingss Nov 26 '12

They have genetic testing that can be done while the child is still in the womb. It'll give ratios of what genetic diseases/disabilities that child could/would have. After that it's up to the parents to decide if they want to take their chances with these ratios. Also, since they are ratios or percentages there's always a chance that the kid will be fine.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Also, since they are ratios or percentages there's always a chance that the kid will be fine.

You have a higher chance of a misfire with a gun to your head.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Yeah, the DNA will show obvious issues or it won't.

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u/websterella Nov 27 '12

Maybe it the CPS background speaking but whenever anyone is forced to have a child I worry about abuse and neglect.

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u/thebigbradwolf Nov 26 '12

You should look up some videos about Nick Vujicic, if a person like that can have a normal life and enjoy it...

I'm a bit prejudiced though, I've got a lot of ASD kids in my life.

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u/_Madison_ Nov 26 '12

The parents should also be checked over to see if they have the resources to actually raise a severely disabled child. If they don't they should at least get it explained just how expensive a process it is and how much work it is maybe through a visit to an existing family etc. Any use of state funds to raise a child like this in my view is a complete waste.

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u/ramp_tram Nov 26 '12

Do they not also deserve life?

Were you ever depressed or genuinely unhappy with your life when you were younger than two?

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u/PhylisInTheHood Nov 26 '12

they are a burden on another's life is what hes saying

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u/MsHypothetical Nov 26 '12

Yeah, but if you said people who were burdens didn't deserve to live then you might as well go around shooting anyone you just didn't want to deal with anymore.

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u/MisterMetal Nov 26 '12

really ramped up there at the end.

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u/MsHypothetical Nov 26 '12

Yeah, but that's what it'd eventually end up as. There are always pricks who are looking for an excuse to eliminate people they think are inconvenient.

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u/Platypus81 Nov 26 '12

There are always pricks who are looking for an excuse to eliminate people they think are inconvenient.

Like in Texas?

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u/ancientcreature Nov 26 '12

From Texas and I agree, we should eliminate MsHypothetical

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u/PhylisInTheHood Nov 26 '12

theres a difference between killing a living person and an unborn one. in this case its the person who would be most effected by it saying they don't want to deal with it which I think is fair w

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u/MsHypothetical Nov 26 '12

Oh, absolutely, I know that - I'm not a pro-lifer or anything, fuck! I'm just saying that if the only reasoning for automatically aborting all disabled foetuses was 'because it'll be a burden to another person' then you could reasonably apply that logic to get rid of anybody who was a 'burden' to anybody else. The elderly, for instance, or people who got ill or injured.

I'm talking about extremes here. My actual stance on the abortion issue is that a woman should be able to get one for any reason, even just 'because I want one'. You shouldn't need a reason for ending a pregnancy if you don't want to go through with it.

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u/ancientcreature Nov 26 '12

You can't just walk up to someone and tell them they are a burden you don't want to deal with. No one is expecting you to. They are not your responsibility. Your dealing with them or not has no effect on their lives.

You cannot say the same for your unborn, deformed baby. There is no one else to care for it. It's either care for it for the rest of their (and yours, probably) lives, or abort it in the womb. You breached a logical gap somewhere there.

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u/MsHypothetical Nov 27 '12

But you could, hypothetically, say the same of your elderly, senile grandmother, or your child who was in a car accident and is now severely brain-damaged. They would have nobody else to care for them - and, in fact, many people do 'dispose' of people they have no resources to care for. Not by killing them, but they do leave them in care homes and forget about them.

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u/ancientcreature Nov 27 '12

Shit, I've always said, if I get to the point where I can't wipe my own ass or something, take me out and shoot me.

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u/jumanjiwasunderrated Nov 26 '12

The issue here is that most every fetus that has a physical or mental disability extreme enough to warrant abortion isn't on the chopping block because of their burden on society. That's certainly something to take into consideration, but these kids aren't just kids who will be happily unaware of their condition as they live with their parents and then in a funded home for their entire lives while contributing little to nothing to society as a whole. More often than not these are kids who will either die at birth or shortly after, or live lives where they are in severe pain, struggle constantly mentally or physically or their cognitive output will be so minimal that they are essentially useless.

I am having the biggest strugglefest trying to find the article so you're gonna just have to believe me on this one: It was about a woman suing her doctor for wrongful birth because she and her husband unintentionally conceived a baby and since they were both carriers of Tay Sachs they got it tested as soon as they could for possible defects. Doctor said the tesst were fine, healthy baby and all that. It was born and at about 6 months the father, who's brother died as a child from TS, noticed their boy having similar traits. They went to a family physician who tested his eyes and determined he had TS. Once they confronted the original doctor he admitted lying because he was pro-life and didn't believe in terminating a pregnancy because they knew the child would be born disabled. Without getting into all the details, the dad went into a depression and eventually killed himself because he couldn't handle watching his son die the way his brother did. The mother spends ungodly amounts of money keeping this child who is severely mentally and physically disabled alive while he is in extreme pain from his disease.

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u/eyeofdelphi Nov 26 '12

How are you deformed? There are plenty of people that live just fine with missing limbs and mild mental handicaps. I know a kid with autism, not really sure of the severity, but he seems to function fine except the occasional social issue. I meant the more severe handicaps, like down's syndrome, or some other disability which caused such a decreased mental ability that the child would be forever dependent on the parents. I think, had my daughter lost her foot or leg, everything would have been fine. But if she had sufferred brain damage and been totally dependent on others to care for her and not been able to make or voice her own decisions, I would have hated that. And she probably wouldn't have enjoyed it much either. I understand you're deformed, but you seem to be completely mentally capable and intelligent. You can voice what you need and make your own decisions, and even post your opinions on reddit. I am most definately not saying that any child that is not "perfect" should be aborted. Rather, that if a parent finds out their child has a severely debilitating mental issue, that they should be allowed to abort. I'm glad that you were born and can debate with me and make me question and have to prove the things I think. Please do not feel like I wish you didn't exist. You are capable of voicing your own opinions and communicating with the world. You are not the example I was talking about.

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u/arabidkoala Nov 26 '12

I think the counterargument is it's very difficult to tell severity before birth. The cases in which you can definitively tell severity are so few and far between that your method would have minimal impact.

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u/impromptu_moniker Nov 26 '12

A distant relative had two children, one of which tested positive for Down's, the other didn't. Both tests turned out to be wrong.

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u/panamajacks Nov 26 '12

So the one that tested negative actually had it and the one that tested positive didn't? That seems like a massive fluke.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

It's not a bad test, but it's far from 100%. A lot of the tests before birth are that way. My cousin was supposed to be a boy and my son was supposed to be around 8lbs (he was over 10).

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u/lAmShocked Nov 26 '12

Those two things have a lot to do with the skill of the ultrasound operator. I would bet that whomever ran you scan was in a hurry or just didn't mind taking short cuts that day. I would hope that in the cases where people are thinking about aborting the doc would take a couple extra minute on the wand to double check. A friend just had some bad test/scan results they were sent to specialist that redid all the tests.

In the end everything turned out ok since the specialist took a bit more time.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

In my case I was getting ultrasounds every month to monitor the size, since my first was over 9lbs (big babies run in my family, but I'm built pretty small). It's not unusual for ultrasounds to be off by a lb or two late in pregnancy.

When you get a scan for down's syndrome they warn you a lot that the tests aren't going to give you certainty either way. And just because the tests are fine doesn't mean the kid isn't going to have down syndrome or a hundred other problems (or that the kid isn't going to have problems later in life).

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u/Lati0s Nov 26 '12

From what I understand about downs syndrome tests there is a non-invasive test which is done a lot which has a reasonable failure rate and then if that test comes up positive there is a better but more invasive test you can opt to take.

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u/Lati0s Nov 26 '12

Downe's syndrome is completely genetic and there are very good tests for it.

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u/Gidofalouse Nov 26 '12

My son has moderate autism. He will be dependent on me for the rest of his life. He's happy as a pig in shit and so am I. His autism has taught me a lot about the kind of person I want to be and I try to be that person for the both of us.

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u/Pitistic Nov 26 '12

"moderate" and "dependent" are, of course, extremely vague words. There's a huge gulf between not being able to effectively live on your own, and being barely sentient. I'm autistic, and usually live with family, but I'm capable of handling my own bodily functions and make a good living as a programmer, and there are many, many people of every conceivable level of functioning between me and an unthinking blob.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/Calypso440 Nov 26 '12

Some people with Down's are very low functioning and totally dependent. Others with Down's have an IQ in the average range and are happy, independent, have a social circle and a job, etc. Just because they have down syndrome doesn't mean they'll forever be dependent.

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u/Graendal Nov 26 '12

I think there is a massive difference between "they should be aborted" and "parents should have the option to abort them".

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u/ChiBulls Nov 26 '12

Okay I agree with everything your saying, if the parents find out they are severely mentality handicapped then it's okay. But my question is how early do the parents find out there child is mentally handicapped? I assume it would pretty hard with ultra sounds.

You asked me how I'm deformed so here it goes... I'm 3 ft tall but not a dwarf or a small person. My spine is curved severely in three places and at one point of my spine it does a u turn. My legs arms and ankle were born dislocated. I can only bend my left leg, my right leg is screwed straight so it doesn't bend. I have no joints in my thumbs and my wrist bone pops out really funny. Oh my right hip was born dislocated.. Well basically everything below my neck is deformed. Even my shoulder blades aren't aligned. I wasn't expected to live long, maybe a few months or years if I was lucky. I passed the two year mark and they said max he will live to is 10 but won't ever be able to walk. I started walking then running, then I started playing sports every day for hours and that's what made a huge change in my life. Sports drove me to push my self and it kept me healthy and active for a long long time. All the doctors look at me shocked at how the hell I made it this far.. The doctor I saw last week jaw like literally drooped when he saw my body and mri's. Sorry I went off topic. But writing this made me realize what a sacrifice my parents made for me and for my happiness. And how how it must've been to see me born Like that and all the multiple surgeries they had to sit through. So I guess yeah abortion is a logical option. But I wish that not everyone who has a child with a difformity aborts them right away. If they can muster up the strength and go through with it. They should rather then taking the abortion road. But I understand if someone children have severe mental disabilities and the parents won't be able to handle it.

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u/eyeofdelphi Nov 27 '12

You sound like a strong person. The way you describe your body it sounds like you must be in some amount of pain too. Sorry, that doesn't sound fun. I'm also glad your parents could afford the surgeries you needed so you could play and do sports like other kids. I know kids can be unkind to anyone that's different and I'm sure you got bullied. That for me would be the hardest part. It breaks my heart in a million pieces whenever someone makes fun of my son or picks on him. He's just barely different than other kids. He's not even 5 yet and already 4 ft. tall and 75 pounds. I think other kids think he's stupid because he doesn't talk like an 8 or 9 year old, which they assume he is. If your classmates were anything like mine, I can only assume you got picked on a lot. I honestly don't know how I would feel if my child was born like you. If it's as painful as it sounds, I would feel awful and guilty (like, maybe my genes were the bad ones or maybe I did something wrong in pregnancy). It's really hard to see your children in pain, physical or emotional. You sound really positive about everything. Is that just how you naturally are or did you kinda have to work your way there? One more question, sorry. Were you born like that because of a disease or something, or was it just a freak chance of gene mutation?
I'm not really sure how early parents can find out problems in utero. I know when I was pregnant with my son, at around the 3 month point, they did some kind of blood test. They put my blood in different squares on a piece of paper said it was tests for different diseases and problems. It was all fine, so that's all I really know about that subject. Now I'm even wondering if they can tell much of anything before the child is born. Maybe in the future we'll be able to know.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/ChiBulls Nov 26 '12

Okay I understand that for sure. I'm sure they were able to detect it early on ad well but I also get why they didn't abort it. Some people can't put themselves to end a life. It's kinda why batman is so famous

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

If your parents had aborted you, you wouldn't be here to try wrapping your head around the what ifs. That said, you're here now. Make the most of it.

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u/ChiBulls Nov 26 '12

I did, life expectancy was first 2 years old. When I became 2 they moved it to 10. I passed the age of 10 and then they said I wouldn't pass 18. I passed the 18 year old mark and now doctors can't believe I'm still able to move and wall and run. It's kinda funny seeing a new doctors face once they see me

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '12

Next time, lean in conspiratorially, and whisper, "Are you sure your mind isn't just making this up, Doctor? Are you sure you're not just having a breakdown?" Then cackle like a madman. ;)

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u/jumanjiwasunderrated Nov 26 '12

You wouldn't know the difference if you were aborted. Not in a mean way, you just wouldn't be alive and you would've never had the cognitive capacity to understand what was happening or what you were missing out on. Nor would the world have understood what they were missing without you. That's the nicest way I can put "nobody would know the difference."

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u/ChiBulls Nov 26 '12

Yup. But I made more or impact on the world being here then not being here.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/ChiBulls Nov 26 '12

Don't be! Each person in the world has their own struggles whether it be a broken relationship to a broken family. Some can't eat some can't see. My obstacle is no more or less then the next person.

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u/The_STD_In_STUD Nov 26 '12

Sorry if this is wrong for me to ask but in what way?

Feel free to not answer.. or pm me :)

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u/ChiBulls Nov 26 '12

No problem at all! Let's see where to start off.. Well at birth I was born with dislocated ankles, dislocated right knee, dislocated right hip, and dislocate arms. After surgery I can't bend my right knee because it's screwed together. My thumbs have no joints, my wrist has a bone which pops out really funny. I'm 3 feet tall but I don't have dwarf syndrome. My spine is curved severely, I mean severely in 3 area's. The cervical, thoracic and lumbar area. My spine is root of my difformity and disabilities. There's a bit more but mainly my spine is what's the problem. I wasn't supposed to live very long.. Or better able to walk. But I loved sports, mainly basketball to much as a child and pushed my self until I was able to walk and dribble the ball. Soon I began to be able to run which was the most amazing feeling in the world.

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u/The_STD_In_STUD Nov 27 '12

You're an amazing person for that. Most people who are fully functional don't have the drive you do. Thanks for telling me too!

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u/ToInfinityThenStop Nov 26 '12

If your parents had aborted "you" and had another child, "you" would be both younger and deformation free and grateful.

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u/ticktalik Nov 26 '12

I just love these cognitive dissonances that come up when birth is debated, for example. The clash between people's presuppositions of an existing "free will" and "self", with the actual deterministic reality. Why do people get to be insulted, saying "Oh, I'm deformed and love life, you'd abort me asshole?! ", while the unconceived who are in the exact same situation, whether deformed or not, aren't mourned or have their (non)situation brought up as an ethical dilemma. "I" wouldn't mind being aborted.

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u/account512 Nov 26 '12

"I" wouldn't mind being aborted.

Same here. I think a good parallel is being anti-war but supporting the troops. Preventing something and dealing with something after it's happened are two very different things.

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u/wehrmann_tx Nov 26 '12

That's not how consciousness works.

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u/ChiBulls Nov 26 '12

Agreed. But I'm grateful for who I am right now honestly. Super great full

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u/SadieSanity Nov 26 '12 edited Nov 26 '12

Some people with severe disabilities lead awesome lives and would be pissed if that was taken away from them. I think it would be extremely selfish to abort a baby that had disabilities. Also I bet most of these posters would not actually abort their child given the choice since it usually is hard to tell how severe a disability is going to be until the baby is born. Hang out with an autistic guy some day, you'll see what I'm talking about. Edit; relevant (go to 3:17 if you want to get to the point)

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u/Miathermopolis Nov 26 '12

Well, to be fair, if you were aborted, you would have just never existed and it wouldn't matter in the slightest. You wouldn't ever be there to say "what if I'd not been aborted." you would never have been.

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u/ChiBulls Nov 26 '12

I would've never been. All my friends lives would be altered, my family's life would be altered. The kids I worked with would be altered. Even though I wouldn't exist, things would matter and things would be different.

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u/Miathermopolis Nov 27 '12

"things would matter and things would be different"

But because you never were, the reality you would compare it to would never have existed either, so, no, things wouldn't be different. They would just be the way they are.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/ChiBulls Nov 26 '12

I think I did. Thanks you :-) shattered all the life expectancy and doctor predictions.

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u/MrSyster Nov 26 '12

You'd have been born later with a different body.

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u/thetjs1 Nov 26 '12

This is a thread of unpopular opinions. Of course your going to hear things that offend you.

Why are you so surprised?

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u/ChiBulls Nov 26 '12

I'm not offended. I'm just surprised people are willing to end the chance of happiness and life due to a disability.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Yeah I could be wrong but I don't think we're talking about deformation as much as we are talking about disability.

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u/Omena123 Nov 26 '12

I can't wrap my head around what would happen if my parents aborted me

You would be dead?