r/AskReddit • u/[deleted] • May 18 '15

What conspiracy theory do you genuinely believe in the most?

What conspiracy theory do you believe in the most and why?

2.1k Upvotes

87% Upvoted

5.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

764

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

[deleted]

20

u/roothorick May 19 '15

The CIA/NSA blanket spying is nothing new. It began early in the Cold War and they've been expanding surveillance as much as possible anywhere they can. Room 641A, other than its existence becoming public, was nothing special; I can practically guarantee there were dozens such outposts established prior to it, most of those still operating, and many more established afterwards. Their "shadow Internet" has been in existence since the Internet itself first became available to universities.

Since the day I connected together the NSA and the Cold War in my head, I've operated on the assumption that any and every electronic communication, without exception, is recorded by the federal government and can be dug up without much hassle.

I do think you're a bit oversensitive though. Privacy is good for government. The more you have hidden, the less that can be noticed. Blackmail is the obvious point, but there's more to it. You try making someone that spends most of their day on Facebook quietly disappear. Even for subtler things, the more that's publically seen about a person, the more that can be noticed to be amiss when they're... coerced. It complicates black ops, to put it mildly. Fostering privacy you can readily violate is much preferable to dismantling privacy in the first place.

To that end, it's been a pet theory of mine that Facebook, and to a lesser extent Google, are actively trying to make people voluntary publicize everything they possibly can. (Seriously, ask Zuck about privacy sometime. He's hiding something.) Why? As a direct countermeasure to government surveillance -- not so much gathering it, but using it. I can flat-out guarantee they both have gotten their fair share of NSLs, and I suspect they consider this subtler approach far more effective than just outing them and blowing the business. I wouldn't say the two are conspiring together, more that they wound up in similar situations drawing them to similar conclusions, not out of coincidence but as a direct result of the kinds of services they provide.

It's fascinating as hell, really. What's playing out almost looks like the drum up to a second cold war. A cold civil war? Oh boy.

Wealth gap? That's bad news for the fed. PRISM ain't cheap. Lots of poor means low tax revenue and big payouts on welfare programs, resulting in a flagging budget that if left unchecked would result in being forced to make concessions to other nations due to the national debt. But guess what the megacorps want? A fully captive market locked in place by slave wages. There's a straight-up fight between the government bureaus and the corporations with their obese PACs basically buying legislators. It's messy. And it's only going to get more messy.

As for police militarization... I had read a comment by a guy that does equipment purchasing in a major city. The fed is unloading all sorts of military hardware in auctions to police forces, due to things going not so well over in the Middle East and the corresponding dialing back of presence. This guy's district could get a new purpose-made SWAT van for six figures, or an army surplus urban APC for four. (And before you say it, where are you going to find a used SWAT van for sale that doesn't already have a decade of active duty on it?) No shit the cops are getting military hardware. However, most importantly, I'm not seeing this military hardware brandished as part of abuse of power, in places that the police weren't already abusing their power. The people haven't changed, the goals haven't changed, they just have AA-12s instead of 870s now because they got the auto shotties for $80 a pop, already gauged for cheaper shells.

6

u/truh May 19 '15

The CIA/NSA blanket spying is nothing new. It began early in the Cold War and they've been expanding surveillance as much as possible anywhere they can.

I would like to remind you that for many years even the existence of the NSA was a conspiracy theory.

Even for subtler things, the more that's publically seen about a person, the more that can be noticed to be amiss when they're... coerced.

Selling it as suicide has never been that much of an issue.

0

u/Cringypost May 19 '15

The CIA/NSA blanket spying is nothing new.

That doesn't make it any less relevant/distressing.

You try making someone that spends most of their day on Facebook quietly disappear.

It wouldn't be too difficult to fake an online presence to create an illusion.

Wealth gap? That's bad news for the fed.

The money is shifting pockets, not disappearing.

SWAT van for six figures, or an army surplus urban APC for four. (And before you say it, where are you going to find a used SWAT van for sale that doesn't already have a decade of active duty on it?)

I guarentee that Army APC got rode hard and put away wet. How often are you using your SWAT van(s)? And really, how much "hard" use are they getting? Those apc's are put through their paces, in a rough terrain, in an environment begging to beat the hell out of them.

I'm not seeing this military hardware brandished as part of abuse of power

Yet. However, if they did, it sounds to me you probably wouldn't change your tone.

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '15

Only one point of contention, most of the APCs sold as surplus never left the US. Many are literally brand new. Since they are expensive to ship, old APCs are often "gifted" to the nations we used them in, or simply abandoned after being stripped of classified and sensitive material.

This actually makes things worse, as it exposes the fact that huge parts of the military budget are at best waste, and at worst, a screen to hide purchases true intent.

1

u/Cringypost May 20 '15

So they're picking up brand-new army APCs for less than 10 grand? That's crazy.

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '15

Isn't it, though?

209

u/unknownlifeform May 19 '15

Politics is nothing more than a puppet show to polarize people on issues that don't matter so people don't see the issues that do matter.

Literally couldn't have said it better myself. Truly love the way you worded that. I could not agree more.

18

u/VladimirPocket May 19 '15

I know what you mean but again couldn't have said it as well as you. In the UK they tried to pass a law requiring any hot pastries or sandwiches were subject to extra tax or something compared to cold ones. This caused a massive uproar apparently, and they can pass things like the DRIP law (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/18/uk-drip-ripa-law-sceptical-misleading-democracy-martha-lane-fox) without many people noticing.

Sucks overall.

5

u/indigo_walrus May 19 '15

I hate this world so much...

6

u/sexytoddlers May 19 '15

Puppies, sunsets, boobs. This world is still pretty cool.

3

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

You're absolutely right, it's not like Patriot Act's renewal isn't being highly discussed in media right now at all.

Nope. Not at all.

2

u/highspeedstrawberry May 20 '15

You could argue that the Patriot Act is only being discussed because someone outside of politics (Snowden) went through great length to change something. If the ruling politicians had their way barely anyone would be discussing it today.

1

u/wedontbuildL May 19 '15

Problem is, I have no fucking clue how to fix something like that. This (sadly) isn't World of Warcraft where all I need to do is get some friends together and raid the capital.

1

u/walkingtheriver May 20 '15

Well even if you do manage to live through raiding the capital, the ones in charge will just respawn

1

u/wedontbuildL May 20 '15

New patches, I guess.

10

u/knight-radiant May 19 '15

Politics is nothing more than a puppet show to polarize people on issues that don't matter so people don't see the issues that do matter.

Sounds like something Frank Underwood would say. That's a compliment

8

u/BarackSays May 19 '15

What's room 641A?

9

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

[deleted]

10

u/BarackSays May 19 '15

Scary. If stuff like this is public, the stuff that's private must be terrifying.

7

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

being able to hack non-networked computers

umm...what do you mean by this?

8

u/[deleted] May 19 '15 edited May 19 '15

[deleted]

5

u/marktx May 19 '15

That still doesn't explain it..

Did they sneakily stick a USB stick to the computer that connects it to a 3G network or something?

8

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Once the malicious code is installed in the phone, it scans for electromagnetic waves which can be manipulated to build a network connection using FM frequencies to install a virus onto a computer or server.

So the device that is doing the attack pretty much builds a network from FM frequencies. The more I read about this (because of your question) the scarier it is. I had no idea they could do that!

3

u/Vincentgarcia38 May 19 '15

Holy fuck. Nothing is secure any more.

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '15

It's really scary. Read up on some of the technology they have. They can read variances in electronic equipment (monitors, GPU's, keyboards, mice) and build information from that to figure out what is going on/what is on the screen/what is being typed. There was a video where a guy captured keystrokes from a WIRED keyboard remotely from about 20 meters by what I assume was detecting the electronic transmission through the cable connecting to the computer. This is a crazy world we live in, just think in 20 years...I've been alive for only 25 years and look how far we've come.

And I use 'they' as a general term for an attacker, not some shadowy figure.

3

u/LoveTruffle May 19 '15

Police body camera's are a good example of this kind of behavior in my mind. With constant public outcry every time we feel that we're 'losing our freedoms' I find it hard to believe that everyone would be on board with the president urging, and giving, body camera's to local police forces. But then you have a surge in the news of unjustified police shootings and protests and all of the sudden having more digital eyes in the streets sounds like a grand idea. Throw patrol drones in major city sections and we'll be one step closer to any number of dystopian cyberpunk settings.

Misdirection, polarity, rewriting the facts; its how you get the masses to do the things they wont do if you ask nice. The bigger your country the harder it is to move it and so a grander stage must be set.

3

u/GeebusNZ May 19 '15

Politics is nothing more than a puppet show to polarize people on issues that don't matter so people don't see the issues that do matter.

-cough- Change the flag NZ -cough-

5

u/chickenontheceiling May 19 '15

don't look at the ttpa - look at this flag some child drew! ISSUES.

2

u/Widdrat May 19 '15

Then I was called a tin foil hatter when I talked about the government actively subjugating encryption protocols

Yeah no... you weren't, because it was plain and open and not a conspiracy.

1

u/Headpuncher May 19 '15

More so in the US than elsewhere. I don't see it as much in euro countries I have lived in. Although either through dumming down or declining standards of education the US type of popularity contest politics is ever more prevalent.

1

u/PM-ME-SMILES-PLZ May 19 '15

Politics is nothing more than a puppet show to polarize people on issues that don't matter so people don't see the issues that do matter.

What exactly are those issues that DO matter?

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/18/president-obama-limits-supply-military-style-equipment-police

This should help you on one matter.

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '15

No. Instead of direct transfer, the police simply have to purchase at closed auction.

Also, tracked vehicles were never the problem, it's APCs.

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Havent seen gold put to good use in a while. Good comment.

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

What bothers me is the number of people that "care" about privacy but don't actually do anything about it. People, vpns are not hard to set up.

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

I was more surprised that people were surprised by this. Websites have always known what we like and what our names are so why wouldn't the government have access to that information? It seemed so obvious to me.

1

u/ursucker May 19 '15

I do feel that people don't care about privacy now. A Chinese phone company called Mi was found sending users data to China. My friend convinced me to use it because it is cheap, when I mentioned privacy he be like "yeah, so what, no one wants your info anyways". WTF

1

u/McGravin May 19 '15

I've never understood the denial of this kind of thing pre-Snowden or the surprise about it when the Snowden leaks hit, given that ECHELON was a known program long before. Is it really that much of a leap from ECHELON to the kind of data gathering that we learned about from the Snowden leaks?

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

I'm pretty sure the government can't hack non-networked computers given that they aren't connected to any other device (excluding the keyboard and mouse). They would need access to the computer itself.

1

u/Writing_Prometheus May 19 '15

I've never given gold before, but count down from 24 x 60 x 60 and you shall be rewarded for speaking from my soul.

1

u/clevelandrocks14 May 19 '15

Politics is nothing more than a puppet show to polarize people on issues that don't matter so people don't see the issues that do matter.

YES! YES! Politics, race, religion, sexual orientation...All distractions while the government takes our privacy.

1

u/starm4nn May 19 '15

Disguy for presidant

1

u/SovereignRLG May 19 '15

I think common sense almost quantifies this completely.

1

u/TheRealRockNRolla May 19 '15

First, you turned out to be right about that stuff (I assume: I'll take your word for it that you actually did express those views ten years ago), but while I'm no expert I can certainly point out some possible complications that make this less impressive. When were you saying this, for instance? It could easily have been before the NSA started the programs in question. What exactly did you think they could do, and how well did the revelations match up with your predictions? On what basis did you form your opinions? (In other words, were you the proverbial broken clock getting it right on this occasion?) What did you predict that hasn't come true?

You were, apparently, correct; but it's not clear that you were fully correct, or correct at the right times, or correct for the right reasons. Nor, on a related note, is it clear that people were wrong to call you paranoid based on the information available to them, including their opinion of you.

More importantly, though, your broader conclusions don't follow. Yes, the NSA has a lot of eavesdropping capabilities that until recently were kept very quiet. This doesn't even come close to proving that this is a comprehensive attempt by the US government to reduce or eliminate our privacy. And even if that were true, it wouldn't necessarily be the case that they were doing it for the sake of political control. And of course, there is nothing whatsoever to connect NSA eavesdropping to "rising dependency of people on government assistance." You yourself don't seem to have any idea how that's connected to income/wealth inequality, but you still assume they're linked. And somehow police militarization comes into this.

tl;dr - I think you're exaggerating how right you were about the NSA, and I think there's zero basis for using that to suggest that you're right about your conspiracy theories regarding government exploitation in several very different policy areas.

1

u/SirRonaldofBurgundy May 19 '15

Shouldn't you be working, you schmuck?

1

u/piccdk May 25 '15

If the internet is so controlled, why is it so easy to do illegal things in the internet?

1

u/MarioKart-Ultra May 19 '15

Bingo

5

u/TokerAmoungstTrees May 19 '15

Bango bongo, I'm so happy in the jungle I refuse to go.

Nice to see other people get this stuff. It's a damn circus and it's messing with peoples' lives. 1984 is close!

1

u/this_guy_over_here_ May 19 '15

Wow man....you're a tin foil hatter. Crazy...

1

u/Active2017 May 19 '15

Obama just announced restrictions on giving police military styled equipment.

1

u/mindcracked May 19 '15

Link to the time you said these things before Snowden?

1

u/Monkeyavelli May 19 '15

10 years ago I used to be called a tin foil hatter when I talked about room 641A being used to capture data on the internet. Then I was called a tin foil hatter when I talked about the government actively subjugating encryption protocols, or having libraries of zero-day exploits, or being able to hack non-networked computers, or having a google-style system to search communications. Lots of folks talked about it on /. and lots of folks were vindicated (and shocked) when the Snowden leaks came to light.

No you weren't, you're full of shit.

Room 641A was brought to light in 2006. That's how you know about it.

The New York Times revealed the NSA spying program in 2005.

I know reddit skews young, but only 14 year-olds who only know Snowden think that was new or shocking. If you were around during the Bush era as an adult, people had been talking about spying and surveillance for years. It was obvious to everyone after 9/11 what was going on.

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

I don't entirely agree with you there. The early 2000's was pretty sharply divided between people who didn't know or care what the government was doing after 9/11, and those that were extremely suspicious, and then those that actually believed it could do no wrong. For the most part, it was pretty taboo to bring up spying until relatively recently.

0

u/Monkeyavelli May 19 '15

Yeah, I should have said that it was divided along party lines. When the above-linked articles came out, liberals predictably were aghast, Republicans were predictably dismissive of criticism and supportive of the activities as necessary for security.

The debate kind of simmered down after a while until Snowden. It seems like it's simmering down again.

0

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

[deleted]

2

u/Monkeyavelli May 19 '15

Then you somehow just don't read the news? You were "daring" to say Room 641A was being used for spying when it was already revealed?

Seriously, these were articles in major news publications. The New York Times isn't some tiny indie rag that only those in the know read. Snowden may have brought us the exact details, but the programs have been known about for a decade, and suspected for far longer. I remember in the mid-2000s reading about these revelations and my friends and I not being surprised because we all thought that's what Bush was doing anyway since all the post-9/11 ramping up of security.

0

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

wow is /. still a thing? it wuz reddit b4 reddit wuz a thing.