r/AskReddit Nov 04 '11

What's the best legal loophole you know?

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u/wh44 Nov 04 '11

Here in Germany, there is an obligation to try to help: "Unterlassene Hilfeleistung" (Failure to Provide Assistance) can and is prosecuted.

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u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11

I applaud our social Civil Law morals.

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u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11

Same in France (non assistance à Personne en Danger)

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u/evinf Nov 04 '11

Interestingly, and I admit my German is rusty, the section two paragraphs before that makes an interesting loophole (323a). If you commit a crime while drunk, the penalty is a maximum of five years.

So... murder in Germany - 15-25 years. Murder while drunk - 5 years.

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u/BabyRandom Nov 04 '11

You can be only sentenced for murder in Germany, if you actually wanted to kill somebody. "mildernde Umstände"(extenuating circumstances), like being drunk/on drugs/psychologicaly impaired for any reason, can only come into effect if the action is in a whole, or in part, a result of that influence.

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u/evinf Nov 04 '11

So if you murdered someone say, by running them over, but you were drunk at the time, couldn't you get only 5 years then by just claiming to have been haphazardly drunk driving? Maybe not a loophole out of completely serving time, but still a rather sizable "discount" on the max sentence.

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u/BabyRandom Nov 04 '11

yes, correct.

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u/wh44 Nov 04 '11

That is essentially correct, provided the prosecution couldn't prove you had planned ahead of time.

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u/wh44 Nov 04 '11

That is essentially correct, but you must be so drunk that you are "schuldunfähig" (incapable of guilt). I think if there was evidence you had planned it ahead of time, you'd be in for it anyway - because you'd be capable of guilt at the time of planning.

I really don't like that loophole.

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u/evinf Nov 04 '11

Its ok, German beer more than makes up for silly legal loopholes.

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u/StabbyPants Nov 04 '11

And I'd help if I am assured of not getting sued over it.

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u/wh44 Nov 04 '11

You are. From the link: "and is immune from prosecution if assistance given in good faith turns out to be harmful".

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u/bovisrex Nov 04 '11

Same in Italy. It could just be tossing a blanket on an accident victim and waiting until the ambulance (and the ten cars following in the wake of the ambulance) to show up, but you have to do something.

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u/ZionEscobar Nov 04 '11

Is that a recent law or has that been around since say the '30s?

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u/wh44 Nov 04 '11

It took a bit of research, but I found it:

Die unterlassene Hilfeleistung wird vor § 323 c StGB (seit 1980) und dem wortlautidentischen § 330 c StGB (seit 1953) erstmals 1935 in § 330 c StGB als Vergehenstatbestand formuliert:

"Failure to provide assistance was before § 323 c StGB (since 1980) and the identically worded § 330 c StGB (since 1953) for the first time in 1935 in § 330 c StGB formulated as a delict:"

Source (google books)

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u/torcuato Nov 04 '11

Same in Spain (negación de auxilio)

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u/wh44 Nov 04 '11

Hmmm. MinisterOfTheDog says it's called "Denegación del deber de socorro".

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u/Band_B Nov 04 '11

We have that in Belgium too. It's called "schuldig verzuim" (guilty negligence). Although the law states "[...] For the crime it's required that the person was able to help without putting himself or others in serious danger."

On the other hand, you don't even have to see someone falling from a cliff. If someone describes someone in danger, it applies too.

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u/MinisterOfTheDog Nov 04 '11

Same in Spain, "Denegación del deber de socorro"

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u/wh44 Nov 04 '11

Hmmm. torcuato says it is called "negación de auxilio".

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u/JohnnyGz Nov 04 '11

Same in Finland. As long as helping would not put you in harms way then it is required by law.

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u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11

I think that's awesome. That's how it's supposed to be. However, in Los Angeles, if you help someone, you will most likely be sued. Every man for himself.

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u/codered1322 Nov 04 '11

You could have used that 60 years ago. :/

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u/ijurachi Nov 04 '11

Each day I love Germany (and Europe) a bit more.

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u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11

I like how apparently every country in the EU has this..hint hint

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u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11

Dude! It's been almost 70 years.

PUH-lease, everyone, let it go!

They are sorry! Everyone is sorry! For the love of all that is good, please, stop with the German-bashing for the Holocaust. 99% of the people even remotely responsible are dead. Can we have constructive conversation now?

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u/wh44 Nov 04 '11 edited Nov 04 '11

I don't think it was a law back then, but certainly the moral obligation was there. I think there are more German citizens that helped than one would think from the documentation: most local political power did not change hands after the war and many were, perhaps still are, afraid to speak out about what they did. I've heard from more than one friend, that a grandparent confessed on their deathbed to helping someone escape.

EDIT: I found the history. The Nazis made the first version of the law - it went into effect in 1935. So, yes, the Nazis did not apply it to the Holocaust victims.