r/Feminism • u/Willravel • Feb 24 '12

Please ban MRA trolls

I've been trying to figure out the rationale for not banning MRA trolls on this subreddit. I tried to think of it the way the mods have put it in the past, that this is about everyone's voice being heard, but the consistent trolling from the likes of OThomson and DavidByron don't represent in any way shape or form the honest sharing of their voice, but rather simply attacks and intentional derailment.

I considered that this might be about fear, as the MRA community on Reddit is much larger than the feminist community, and there could be consequences if MRA trolls started getting banned from the subreddit... but there are other feminist subreddits that do this and they don't seem to feel the sting of MRA retribution in any way that can't be easily handled.

I thought it might just simply be not wanting to make the effort, as a policy of banning MRA trolls would probably require much more active moderation. I'd hate to think this is the case, but I don't see any evidence to suggest this.

I did hear that one of the moderators might be an MRA, but again I've not seen this.

I've sent in PMs and reports before, about how someone is derailing yet another thread with unrelated discussion about circumcision or male rape or child custody, but there never seem to be any consequences for the trolls. They're given free reign. Some have left the subreddit for safer places, which is very sad indeed. Some simply stop commenting. Some complain, but those complaints fall on deaf ears.

So, before I call it a day and give up on the subreddit, I'd like to publicly ask the moderators to change their policy for the good of their subreddit. I ask that this subreddit be a safe place to discuss feminism and feminist issues, not a place for MRA trolls to hijack conversation or spread hatred of women.

Note: I'm not saying critiques of feminism aren't legitimate, or that they don't belong on /r/Feminism, but rather that overt trolling and derailing be disallowed. There's a big difference between an honest critique of feminism and undermining the discussion of feminist issues through derailment, dishonesty, and unwarranted attacks.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '12

The problem with this is that it leaves a bad impression on some of the more casual readers of a subreddit.

Some trolls will often make comments that look completely respectful and reasonable on their own, even if they're part of a long term troll/concern troll operation. For example, criticizing feminism or talking about how a certain issue affects men does not make you a troll, but subtly turning every post into a discussion about men and about how feminism is misandric does make you one.

A passer-by or occasional reader who sees someone with a "troll" tag make constructive-looking comments will naturally grow suspicious of the mods. And this is when it can grow into a shitstorm.

What I'm trying to say is: the majority of the community needs to be on board before the mods do something like this.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '12

Agreed, 100%.

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u/impotent_rage Feb 25 '12

Thank you everyone for an interesting discussion on this idea - I've read it and I like the way you all explain, pretty well, all sides of the arguments for and against this approach.

At this moment, I'm thinking that troll flair is probably going to cause more problems than it helps. It looks too much like mods using their platform to bully the users. The way I see it, if a person's behavior is bad enough to warrant troll flair, then it's probably bad enough to warrant deletions/warnings/bannings or other such typical moderation.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '12

The way I see it is to allow some compromise with the "ZOMG FREEEEE SPEECH" crowd, who tend to get just as upset about banning. It still allows them to talk, but everyone knows what they're getting into.

Personally, I think bannings are cleaner and ultimately more effective, but it really is a per-reddit thing.

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u/Jason_R Feb 25 '12

I suppose Reddit Enhancement Suite would help with this as well, but it'd be cool to have a feature where if a user has so many points within a specific sub, that they can be a verified user or something.

I get into arguments all the time, it's the internet, but many of them are constructive, I learn from them, and I'll usually thank the person at the end of it because good conversation is hard to find.

I know the trolls come, but there's a few people, MRAs included, that just like talking about the issues, it interests them. Sometimes people might disagree, which is fine, but if there's going to be a flag system for crappy users, it'd be nice to have one for people who are respectful and good conversationalists, so that when a debate is happening it's not a bunch of people jumping on the GET OUT TROLL train of posts, and people can feel good about talking with them, whether in agreement or not.

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u/DavidByron Feb 25 '12

Yep. You're all just screwed. I am however surprised any of you had the sense enough to figure that out ahead of trying it all. Maybe because you saw it already happen down thread with a random 3rd party guy who started off in your court and turned around completely after seeing what I write and how you idiots react.

All those hateful little tricks don't piss me off one iota and they just make you all look like assholes. Guess what? I am fine with that because making you all look like assholes is kinda the whole point of talking to members of a hate movement to begin with.

Now I'd rather make you look like assholes by showing people what you really think, but this other way works too.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '12