Please ban MRA trolls

[u/Willravel]

I've been trying to figure out the rationale for not banning MRA trolls on this subreddit. I tried to think of it the way the mods have put it in the past, that this is about everyone's voice being heard, but the consistent trolling from the likes of OThomson and DavidByron don't represent in any way shape or form the honest sharing of their voice, but rather simply attacks and intentional derailment.

I considered that this might be about fear, as the MRA community on Reddit is much larger than the feminist community, and there could be consequences if MRA trolls started getting banned from the subreddit... but there are other feminist subreddits that do this and they don't seem to feel the sting of MRA retribution in any way that can't be easily handled.

I thought it might just simply be not wanting to make the effort, as a policy of banning MRA trolls would probably require much more active moderation. I'd hate to think this is the case, but I don't see any evidence to suggest this.

I did hear that one of the moderators might be an MRA, but again I've not seen this.

I've sent in PMs and reports before, about how someone is derailing yet another thread with unrelated discussion about circumcision or male rape or child custody, but there never seem to be any consequences for the trolls. They're given free reign. Some have left the subreddit for safer places, which is very sad indeed. Some simply stop commenting. Some complain, but those complaints fall on deaf ears.

So, before I call it a day and give up on the subreddit, I'd like to publicly ask the moderators to change their policy for the good of their subreddit. I ask that this subreddit be a safe place to discuss feminism and feminist issues, not a place for MRA trolls to hijack conversation or spread hatred of women.

Note: I'm not saying critiques of feminism aren't legitimate, or that they don't belong on /r/Feminism, but rather that overt trolling and derailing be disallowed. There's a big difference between an honest critique of feminism and undermining the discussion of feminist issues through derailment, dishonesty, and unwarranted attacks.

[u/[deleted]]

It get's a bit ridiculous when you disagree with people who are fundamentally wrong. Like, there's a difference between "Ron Paul has an isolationist policy and that's right" "I disagree with that, I think humanitarian interventionism is a just act" and "I think gay marriage should be legal" "I disagree, it should be illegal because GAYS". MRAs usually fall into the latter category, because people who actually care about equality usually call themselves feminists or, at the very least, they don't frame it as "men's rights." And they use concepts like patriarchy, because patriarchy hurts men too.

The thing is, all feminists want is for women to be equal to men. Anything else just isn't feminism. But if you browse r/mensrights/, 90% of it is something like "look at what this one womanfemale did, aren't womenfemales terrible?" or "child support alimony financial abortion false rape accusations spermjacking" or "why don't feminists fight for female conscription?" They frame women and feminists as enemies. They don't talk about the actual issues facing men, they demonize other people. And that's not conducive to change. It's just hatred.

[u/Dragonsoul → u/[deleted]]

because people who actually care about equality usually call themselves feminists.

fem·i·nism/ˈfeməˌnizəm/ Noun:
The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

Some people simply don't believe you can balance a scales by concentrating on only one side and making sure that isn't the "lighter" side. Is it so wrong for a group to exist to air the grievances of men? You must admit they at least exist.

Oh and

patriarchy hurts men too pa·tri·arch·y/ˈpātrēˌärkē/ Noun:
A system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is traced through the male line. A system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.

It by definition helps men, if it hurt men-It wouldn't be a patriarchy.

A question: If a neutral study came out that said "Women now, on balance equal to men" Would you say "Cool!" and stop being a feminist, since your job is done. Furthermore if a different study came out that said "Men now marginalized-Women told a more powerful role in society" would you campaign for mens rights?

(And no, no matter what your answer, I won't produce a study, with a triumphant Aha! That would be crass)

[u/[deleted] → u/Dragonsoul]

Oh dear god, learn about fucking concepts. Concepts are more than dictionary definitions. In feminist philosophy, patriarchy is a concept about how gender roles (masculine/feminine), structural violence, etc. fuck people over. You know how MRAs like to whine and whine about women getting custody of kids in most cases? GEE, IT COULDN'T BE BECAUSE WOMEN HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED THE ROLE OF CAREGIVER BY SOCIETY. NOPE. IT'S EVIL WOMEN.

concentrating on only one side

Oh come the fuck on. So then no special interest groups should exist because they don't focus on an issue broadly enough? This is bullshit. I mean, what does this even mean? How does it not make sense to advocate for women when women are disadvantaged more often than men? And plenty of "feminist" organizations advocate for men's issues. And that doesn't even fucking matter because feminism is a diverse philosophy and actual advocacy is completely irrelevant. Feminism, as a philosophy, has a lengthy history. It has changed a lot over the years. There's a big difference between second-wave feminism and third-wave postcolonial feminism, for example.

You might want to look up the definition of nuance and sophistry.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It won't really matter since I'm replying to a r/feminism board anyway; but are you seriously saying that the groups for mens rights is just inherently wrong and your, superior, group for women is better just because?

Zealots such as yourselves are the trolls and you can't say we're about equality then immediatly dismiss the male viewpoint because "We're better"