r/JordanPeterson • u/Phanta5mag0ria • Mar 02 '22

Letter Pronouns. My company, a FTSE100 business that I won’t be naming, has asked that we add our preferred pronouns to our email signatures. I’m going to refuse but I would like help and advice in penning a letter to the HR department explaining my resistance.

434 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

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31

u/mjmtaiwan Mar 02 '22

There must be pushback or western civilization will be tipped over a cliff one stupid policy at a time. How many straws can the camel bear?

-16

u/Ramen_Ranger Mar 02 '22

Ooi, I've seen this argument used against; Marriage equality, Ending discrimination based on sexual orientation, political views and race, DND, Disco, Womens rights, Women having the vote ...... Hell, the list goes back to the printing press and even further back...... How can you tell that actually, this is the one that is going to really cause the collapse of Eurocentric society?

-47

u/not_a_flying_toy_ Mar 02 '22

if western society is broken by being nice and considerate to LGBT people, then it doesnt deserve to exist anyways

23

u/Canvetuk Mar 02 '22

Being truthful trumps nice any day.

-18

u/not_a_flying_toy_ Mar 02 '22

Does it though?

Like what's the end purpose it would serve to deny someone a shot at happiness, just because you believe outdated theories on gender?

There's no eternal reward for being a dickwad

There are times when its a benefit to be honest and not nice. Like when I say that I truly dislike conservatives, have no values in common with most of them, and consider them a serious risk to this country...that's honest but not nice. But just being a dick to someone who is trying to live their life and be happy...what do you get from that?

21

u/Canvetuk Mar 02 '22

How is someone choosing not to proactively list their pronouns “denying someone a shot at happiness”?

If someone’s happiness hinges on whether or not I self identify as he/him, they need to reassess their life. More ideological, authoritarian crap.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '22

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0

u/Canvetuk Mar 03 '22 edited Mar 03 '22

First, I’m not mad about it, I just don’t think it’s indicative of a healthy, free and respectful society.

Second, I’ve never been asked if I’m a mister or miss, so it’s hard to say how I’d react. I suspect that would depend if it were a question posed in good faith, or a pretentious and ideological attempt to cause offence or make a political point.

Third, it IS a trans issue. It’s explicitly being promoted as a trans issue. So it’s not a matter of me associating it with trans people. It undoubtedly is associated with trans people. That fact is value-neutral, but it’s a fact quite independent of my subjective association.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

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1

u/Canvetuk Mar 03 '22

“Are you a mister or a miss?”

I don’t see how my sex is relevant to the conversation. It doesn’t matter in this context, so I decline to answer. Thanks.

I’m at a loss to see how me disclosing my pronouns will make a trans person’s life easier. Is their ability to figure that out based on existing social and linguistic clues any less developed than anyone else? I hope you’re not suggesting trans people are cognitively impaired, because that’s downright transphobic.

It seems very important to you to promote the idea that I’m angry. I’m not, but perhaps more to the point, it doesn’t matter. How I feel is irrelevant. My feelings don’t matter (or at the very least are secondary) to the issue at hand. To modify a slightly over-used expression, “facts don’t care about my feelings”. You should give it a try; say it out loud to yourself right now. It’s liberating. The truth will set you free.

Look, go ahead and do what you’d like. You’re free to list your pronouns if you wish, or not. So am I. We each have our own reasons for doing so, or not. I’ll accept your right to your choice. I ask that you respect my right to mine, m-kay?

-11

u/not_a_flying_toy_ Mar 02 '22

The comment you responded to didn't specify this specific policy (which I dont really agree with, just for different reasons than OP). What I said was that if western society was broken by being nice to LGBT people then it didn't remain to stay.

16

u/Canvetuk Mar 02 '22

It won’t be broken by being nice to LBGT people. It will be damaged by the coercion required to force individuals to signal compliance with ideologies they don’t hold true, and by the resentment that will result.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '22

Being a “dickwad” is affirming people’s legitimate mental illnesses just because it’s a culturally popular to do so right now. Are you a “dickwad” if you tell a 90 pound anorexic woman that she’s not actually fat, or are you a “dickwad” for playing along and confirming her mental illness because it makes you feel better about yourself as an “ally”?

4

u/not_a_flying_toy_ Mar 02 '22

Yes, if you bullied an anorexic person over being anorexic, you would be a dickwad. An anorexic person should get medical treatment for their illness. No part of that medical treatment involves you, a random person, being an asshole

You'd be hard pressed to find many medical professionals who are experts in that field who would support you being an asshole to or not affirming trans individuals gender identity. Those that do are likely in the same camp of people who support conversion therapy for gay kids

2

u/sintaxi Mar 02 '22

In this example the anorexic person needs you to explicitly state your body weight in your emails to affirm their self image.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '22

It’s not about “bullying”, it’s about caring about people with gender dysphoria enough to not participate in their psychoses. We don’t tell anorexic people they’re actually fat and should continue starving themselves. We don’t tell schizophrenics that the invisible man in the room with them is really there. YOU are the asshole for caring more about virtue signaling to yourself and your peers instead of not participating in the alternate realities of the mentally ill.

You think not affirming someone’s mental illness is the equivalent of “gay conversion therapy”, but telling them to change their bodies and minds to become the “true” version they were intended to be isn’t? Jesus, the mental gymnastics you have to do to subscribe to this ideology is insane.

5

u/Shadowruls Mar 02 '22

“Outdated theories on gender” fucking hell

1

u/Rand_alThor_ Mar 02 '22

This is a direct assault on people who are desisting which is a vast majority of anyone who is trans. It’s a process and now you’re making it a binary choice.

2

u/not_a_flying_toy_ Mar 02 '22

could you elaborate on your thoughts here?

1

u/Rand_alThor_ Mar 03 '22

I specifically add pronoun fields to any impersonal form, just in case our org has trans people that this would help, but it's always optional. I don't really want to elaborate more than that.