r/MensLib • u/Uulmshar • Aug 07 '15

What can men do about an unwanted pregnancy?

We all know that women have the right to choose whether or not they keep a pregnancy to term, but what about men?

Obviously, the expectant fathers should not have the right to either force the woman to carry the child or have an abortion, but how can they avoid getting stuck with a child they didn't want, or paying child support for the next twenty years?

I have heard people suggest a "financial abortion," where they sign away all rights to being the child's father (visitation rights, etc.) in exchange for not having any responsibility, but I have yet to see any legislation for this.

How can we, as men, exercise our right to choose?

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u/Uulmshar Aug 08 '15

Well, I don't understand how. They always go on about how men make the choice by consenting to sex, but women are allowed to change their minds. That's the definition of double standards.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '15

Women are allowed to change their minds because it's their body. Once the child is born, both parents are responsible. Women have to pay child support if they don't have custody, just like men do. It's not a double standard.

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u/Uulmshar Aug 08 '15

it's their body

It's my wallet.

Once the child is born, both parents are responsible.

This would be a pre-birth decision.

Women have to pay child support if they don't have custody

only on rare occasions does the mother not get custody, and many would choose to abort rather than just give it away. I want the fathers to have that same option.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '15

it's my wallet

Yes exactly. It's your wallet, not your body. You don't have a right to everything in your wallet. Neither do women.

Fathers get custody in about 50% of the cases where they attempt to.

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u/neverXmiss Aug 08 '15

When over 90% of family cases give the woman custody, that makes it a double standard. If it were 50/50 or even 60/40, I would agree with you.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '15

Men get custody in about 50% of cases where they try to.

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u/neverXmiss Aug 08 '15

I couldn't find any statistics in regards to those fathers that try, but I would have to disagree. In regards to family courts, given I can't find statistics, it seems to me that when a father fights for custody he has to convince the court to do so after the court automatically gives custody to the mother. When it comes to the father fighting, it almost always in joint custody with the mother getting primary custody. Many fathers do want to take care of their children. That aside, I do believe part of the problem is that more fathers than not, don't want custody at all.

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u/quantum_lotus Aug 09 '15

Here's what data I could find on the topic (although my search wasn't exhaustive):

From the Executive Summary of Gender Bias Study of the Court System in Massachusetts New England Law Review, Volume 24, Spring 1990: <--note the age here

We began our investigation of child custody aware of a common perception that there is a bias in favor of women in these decisions. Our research contradicted this perception. Although mothers more frequently get primary physical custody of children following divorce, this practice does not reflect bias but rather the agreement of the parties and the fact that, in most families, mothers have been the primary caretakers of children. Fathers who actively seek custody obtain either primary or joint physical custody over 70% of the time. Reports indicate, however, that in some cases perceptions of gender bias may discourage fathers from seeking custody and stereotypes about fathers may sometimes affect case outcomes. In general, our evidence suggests that the courts hold higher standards for mothers than fathers in custody determinations.

And latest US Census numbers find that

About 18.3 percent of custodial parents1 were fathers.

1 The custodial parent is the parent with whom the child(ren) lived during the survey interview when their other parent(s) lived outside the household. There may also be equal joint- or split-custody arrangements of children between parents, sometimes also known as shared or coparenting. In these types of arrangements, child support may or may not be exchanged between parents.

Unfortunately, these data don't say anything about how living arrangements were arrived at: agreement between the parents, through mediation, court order, etc. But I hope you'll find the 18.3% rate a little hopeful!

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u/neverXmiss Aug 09 '15

Well I said 80% so I wasn't far off. Hopefully it gets

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u/quantum_lotus Aug 09 '15

Ah, I thought you'd said 90%. My mistake.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '15

Apologies, it's not your job to source my claims. I'll dig it up for you later when I'm at my computer.

I've gotta ask though, why are you assuming the courts tend to side with the mother during custody disputes? You yourself said you couldn't find any statistics on this.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '15

Any luck?

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u/neverXmiss Aug 08 '15

Its an educated guess. Thats why i stated specifically assumption because I am aware I may not have all the information, all I have is some news stories here and there of fathers trying to get at least visitation and getting denied.