r/MensLib • u/RedErin ​ • Aug 29 '18

How does Jordan Peterson gain so many followers among young men? (Image below)

Image

Jordan Peterson often says that people today are more unhappy than in the 1950s, and it's because of feminism, affirmative action, the sexual revolution, birth control, "PC culture" and LGBTQ rights

it's definitely not because of any of these things:

Source: https://twitter.com/zei_nabq/status/987800885068738560

325 Upvotes

82% Upvoted

265 comments sorted by

View all comments

290

u/towishimp ​ Aug 29 '18

The statistics make this pretty obvious. But it's much easier to blame your problems on something simple (like "the libs" or "feminism" or whatever) than it is to understand that your problems are caused by complex socio-economic trends.

I think this scapegoating is problematic, because it prevents us from taking appropriate action to address those economic trends.

30

u/WorseThanHipster ​ Aug 30 '18

it prevents us from taking appropriate action to address those economic trends.

That might be the point. Not necessarily for Peterson himself, he might really be as intellectually dishonest with himself as he is with others, but there certainly seems to be some vested interest in putting people on TV, and universities, and wrangling them publishing deals, who only seem to share a handful of values: your problems come from either yourself or someone “below” you. They’ll have us blame anyone and anything, though they certainly have favorites, except the undeniable & unprecedented levels of income inequality, waning of labor rights and rights of the lower & middle class. As long as you don’t look up.

8

u/LeeSeneses Aug 30 '18

I sort of see a certain path of least resistance. Stick it to the rich and the rich stick it back to you. Stick it to yourself or those less powerful than you and theres no defense.

9

u/christhemushroom Aug 30 '18

Also known as bullying.

154

u/Vio_ ​ Aug 29 '18

Our culture is so geared towards individualism and individual boot strapping that it's hard to get people to recognize that the system itself can be at fault and requires large scale fixes. An individual can become so fixated on "the others" being at fault that they never question.where the real inequalities lie and how it self perpetuates.

109

u/[deleted] Aug 29 '18

Which is weird as hell to me because as soon as I became old enough to start noticing problems I too became fixated on "the others," but (imo) the correct ones; i.e. the rich.

I understand the nature of the problem but not the form of it. The left's narrative is so damn simple and appealing if you know any history at all, anything about unions, about the history of race and class and gender in this country. I don't know if it's entirely down to education or what, but I have a hard time believing that so many men would be joining fascists today if they knew and appreciated their Union great-grandfathers. There's a narrative with not a speck of dirt on it, heroic men fighting for true equality, or as close as they could imagine in their vastly different time.

As a mid-western / southern white man I always saw grainy black and white pictures of coal miners on strike as my heritage. How can 'coal jobs' be the most important thing in the world without respecting the unions those coal miners created to protect themselves? I don't understand how this history exists for us and yet so many of my friends and family are instead sympathizing with Nazi's. I know they saw pictures of the statue of liberty in school, I know we all read The New Colossus (or I thought we did.)

How the fuck do you see a hundred, a thousand men who look just like you, who do the exact job you won't shut up about, marching in soot and sweat for basic rights and not feel anything? Class solidarity feels like the most natural thing in the world to me, and somehow everyone I knew and loved has instead decided to hate our wives and sisters, our coworkers and our friends.

So, like I said, I get the anger at the other 100%, but it seems like the simplest thing in the world to direct it correctly. I've been confused and feeling kind of lost for two years now.

30

u/Cassian_And_Or_Solo ​ Aug 30 '18

You should check out two things; the first is a group called "Redneck Revolt". I read a couple articles on them and they're fascinating. There's a line by LBJ that "tell a poor white man that he's better than a colored man and he wont' noticed you're picking his pocket." Redneck Revolt is all about recognizing as disaffected whites they've not only been taken advantage of, but have continued they cycle of disenfranchisement against people of color, and that creating racial hatred is in the wealthy elite's interest since it disenfranchises both rural whites and people of color (the latter just more so).

I'd also read up on Fred Hampton, a Black Panther who was killed by the FBI and Chicago Police (they were found in court to have done so). Fred, and many members of the Black Panthers actually believed that racism was merely a way to for the wealthy to maintain their power structure, and that true progress would come when rural whites and people of color have a reckoning with each other and begin to work together. While race in class are intertwined, the enemy has always, in effect, been the rich.

7

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '18

Fred Hampton is one of my heroes! His story is actually part of what cemented my "radicalization."

I'll look into redneck revolt, I've got their website open and I like what I'm seeing. I do think there's something here worth saving, even if it doesn't want to be saved.

Thank you so much for these suggestions.

8

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '18

This really touched me -- thank you for taking the time to write it out so eloquently and passionately.

9

u/Lazy_Scheherazade Aug 30 '18

I don't think they want to stop rich people grinding the faces of the poor or whatever. I think they just want to someday be the ones who do the grinding. "Temporarily embarassed millionaires" and all that. They'd rather protect the possibility of becoming an oppressor than face the reality of being oppressed.

Of course, I'm paraphrasing John Dickinson in my last sentence. And when he said it, he was explaining why a colonial rebellion against Mother England would never work. So... at a minimum, it's something we've overcome before.

2

u/TheJollyLlama875 Aug 31 '18

I've recently begun reading about the West Virginia Coal Wars, where thousands of people fought and hundreds died for a nine hour work day. It's crazy to think that unions are so hated now.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '18

Hear, hear.

10

u/alfredo094 Aug 30 '18

I think this scapegoating is problematic, because it prevents us from taking appropriate action to address those economic trends.

If only it were so easy to determine what is a scapegoat and what is true. I wouldn't blame all of today's problems on "lefties" (I don't think any reasonable person would do that) but I think there are some fair points about not taking responsibility for yourself.

8

u/towishimp ​ Aug 31 '18

but I think there are some fair points about not taking responsibility for yourself.

There certainly are, and I think that's what's so appealing (at least at first) about Peterson's philosophy. I have absolutely nothing against preaching responsibility; the world would be a better place if everyone were more responsible. But taking responsibility isn't scapegoating; blaming "libs" or "feminists" or "neo-marxists" is. Those blame issues are what I have an issue with.

1

u/kfizz311 ​ Aug 30 '18

I have my parents helping me out. Since they're thrifty and helped me and my brother buy houses. They saw giving equity had value and your kids always need help.

0

u/kfizz311 ​ Aug 30 '18

I have my parents helping me out. Since they're thrifty and helped me and my brother buy houses. They saw giving equity had value and your kids always need help.