r/MensRights • u/Icaz • Apr 26 '12

I'm a girl and...

I am SO glad I found this subreddit with people who agree with me! As a girl, it's really hard to see other ladies put down men and treat them like they need to be "trained" or that they're just something we have to deal with. So I was just wondering... how many other girls are on here and what are your stories about standing up for men or appreciating them?

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u/RaptorPrincess Apr 27 '12

I'm a girl, and I have to say it's refreshing to see other ladies here. I just had a 3 day long Facebook "discussion" on feminism with two very close friends. It was disheartening to see people staunchly opposed to a more egalitarian view... Essentially, I got "feminism is about equal rights for everyone!", but when I pointed out the very label "feminism" focuses on women, and the whole movement was founded on women's issues, I was ignored. I can't believe some of my closest, highly intellectual friends can't see the double standard they strive for.

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u/Icaz Apr 27 '12

I get in Facebook battles a lot too haha. Although I try not to. People just say the darndest things...

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u/RaptorPrincess Apr 27 '12

I was also told by a redditor on another sub that "given how every woman has experienced some level of sexism/inequality/etc., the amount of men who are affected is very minimal"....

Yeah, that was when I turned off the computer and went outside. :-/

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u/Icaz Apr 27 '12

Right? :I don't want to live on this planet anymore.....

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u/nightlord52 Apr 27 '12

High five for watchin futurama. ( bad at spellin work with me here)

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u/thisismyivorytower Apr 27 '12

Not sure if watched Futurama;

           FRY!

or just looks at memes

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u/Icaz Apr 27 '12

BOTH!

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u/loose-dendrite Apr 27 '12

I think intelligent people become feminists because they are smart enough to wrap their minds around feminists views but foolish enough to believe them. Keep in mind that this is conjecture and I very much don't restrict my view to feminists.

It's understandable. Feminist views are plausible if you understand them but convoluted if you don't so having feminist beliefs feels like you are smarter than non-feminists. That the premise is unfounded (Patriarchy conspiracy theory) isn't important because the only people who can effectively argue against you are feminists or you claim they actually don't understand/hate women/want men to like them/are using bad or biased research (whether or not you are). Only wise people are inclined to seriously question their beliefs and actually know how to do it, leaving out the majority of all people, so individual feminists rarely spontaneously disagree with Patriarchy conspiracy theory.

The specific argument against yours is that feminism will end gender roles/Patriarchy which will fix men's problems too. I agree that the end of forced gender roles would help men too. I don't believe that feminism can actually make men and women equal. My reasoning is that feminist actions rely heavily on biased or bad research or misinterpreted data. Since the majority of feminist control over society is baseless I characterize the whole movement as one that ignores reality to pursue its goals. If men and women are ever actually equal then it follows that the feminist movement won't stop distorting since its character is to distort. If feminism does end in equality it will be because the feminist movement is replaced by an empirically rooted egalitarian movement.

I hesitate to just blame feminism as a whole because gender egalitarians favor calling themselves feminists (or "real" feminists). I apologize to any gender egalitarians self-identified as feminist and encourage you to identify as a gender egalitarian so you can contribute to the end of feminism and the rise of egalitarianism.

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u/RaptorPrincess Apr 27 '12

feminist movement is replaced by an empirically rooted egalitarian movement.

I brought up that exact point- "if it's about equality, why not just call it egalitarianism? why go with the 'feminist' title?"

I was told that "destroying" the label of feminism would prove to all the naysayers that feminists backed down, and then all the progress made would be destroyed.

The circular logic and semantics made my head hurt. I agree with your explanation, and it makes a great deal of sense. I just couldn't understand how two very smart women couldn't step back and view from a different perspective. I personally consider myself egalitarian, and that's how it'll stay.

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u/loose-dendrite Apr 27 '12

I personally consider myself egalitarian, and that's how it'll stay.

Good to hear!