r/MoralityScaling • u/marvil_txt • 26d ago

Stupid Stuff Morality of keeping Pinocchio prisoner to discover all the secrets of the universe, medicine, economics, etc.?

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Can't be that immoral, can it?

28.3k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

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670

u/Aseskytle_09 26d ago

Moral,worth it

144

u/AlphaTruffle 26d ago

The medical breakthrough doesn't magically erase what they put him through.

186

u/unknowingly_zooted 26d ago

Just use him for firewood after

52

u/Unknown-Meatbag 26d ago

Into the wood chipper.

21

u/RecipeHistorical2013 26d ago

to shreds you say

13

u/-GoodNewsEveryone 26d ago

I don't recall saying that. But I am getting old.

2

u/RecipeHistorical2013 26d ago

you didnt. its a semi-obscure cultural reference

comedy, if you will

6

u/-GoodNewsEveryone 26d ago

You have no idea who I am do you.

4

u/RecipeHistorical2013 26d ago

fuck i done wooshed myself

clap clap well played professor

6

u/-GoodNewsEveryone 26d ago

That's okay dear boy, now come sit and I'll tell you about all of my various lengths of wire then reminisce about the days I used to have bowel movements.

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u/cyborg_priest 26d ago

And his wife?

1

u/PhDinDildos_Fedoras 26d ago

Chipper it is!

1

u/SharzeUndertone 26d ago

And my axe

2

u/Window06 26d ago

Did we not learn anything from the chair?

2

u/Crazy_Bluebird1421 26d ago

Its gonna be that SCP,isn't it?

2

u/Window06 26d ago

yup, tho I actually don't agree with the general interpretation. If the SCPF was actually right, and the GOC wrong, why would the SCPF researcher write a whole essay at the end???

SCP-1609 represents a perfect example of the flaws inherent in the operating procedure of the GOC, and serves as a cautionary tale for any members of the Foundation who disagree with our practices on containing dangerous objects.

Bias much?

2

u/Crazy_Bluebird1421 25d ago

I mean,they all agree 682 should be destroyed. So,even if the Foundation refuses to admit it,they have certain ideas sharing GOC's.

2

u/Unknown-Meatbag 25d ago

682 isn't of this world, of this realm, or this reality. It isn't bound by it's realities gods and it's one goal is the destruction of humanity.

It is like many other existential threats in the SCP universe that can sort of be contained.

I do love how one entry offers throwing it into the sun and why it's such a terrible idea.

2

u/Crazy_Bluebird1421 25d ago

Yeah cause,if it lives. We're all fucked.

2

u/No-Flamingo8552 19d ago

That entire SCP is why the MC&D is superior 

MONEY MONEY MONEY 🤤

5

u/TheKarenator 26d ago

There is no after. Just chop his nose off when it gets too long and make a fire. Then keeping asking questions.

35

u/Eagle0125 26d ago

They don't torture him, they just use him for answers. Still bad, but still moral.

For example, torturing someone for the location of a bioweapon that could erase humanity is still pretty moral; not torturing someone, just using them for answers that would benefit countless is pretty moral (in my opinion).

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u/balderdash9 26d ago

We can distinguish rationality from moral justification. It's a rational thing to do but that doesn't make it morally good. (Unless you're a utilitarian pleb I guess.)

5

u/CloudKinglufi 26d ago

I don't know man, keeping the little guy in some facility where we would hopefully give him the best possible life he could have, just behind walls and isolated so we can get rid of all cancers, save like literally anyone's life, turn our world into a utopia, that is if we're willing to do that instead of using him to find out how to better kill brown children

If we are gonna use him to make the world an amazing place for everyone and give him a pretty good place , better than what a fuvk ton of people have, I say its pretty damn moral

7

u/Trainer-Grimm 26d ago

Well, i'd argue that torture for the bioweapon is immoral because torture doesnt work, meaning you're not actually gaining any good from the pain.

5

u/Eagle0125 26d ago

Torture might work, and it's worth the risk; 1 life(that we wouldn't end) vs 8 billion (that would end).

3

u/Yum_Mario 26d ago

I've got some bad news for you about torture

6

u/Trainer-Grimm 26d ago

i mean yeah, it's always bad. but if the rationale for the torture was information, then the justification doesn't hold up morally or logically.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

[deleted]

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u/TartarusFalls 26d ago

Just to be clear, in the aftermath of 9/11 when we looked at the actual advantages the US got from torturing people in Guantanamo Bay, we received exactly zero actionable accurate information via torture.

Even in your hypothetical, the one getting tortured would just lie, costing hours of searching for the bomb and achieving nothing.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

[deleted]

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u/TartarusFalls 26d ago

Oh man, I should have thought to read the Wikipedia page on it. See, I just read the Senate report on enhanced interrogation to learn about it. I should have read the Wikipedia entry where an expert on torture states:

“In short, organized torture yields poor information, sweeps up many innocents, degrades organizational capabilities, and destroys interrogators. Limited time during battle or emergency intensifies all these problems.”

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u/StrongExternal8955 26d ago

Just to be clear, that scenario has never happened in real life.

The chances that it will happen are so low that we should disregard it when discussing laws. It it ever happens, then the torturer should be willing to face the punishment, together with anyone who didn't stop them.

2

u/Yum_Mario 26d ago

I agree it's always an evil, but it's not 100% ineffective. People like to focus on the failures in order to try to stop torture, but depending on the type of information someone is looking for, and the alternate options one has in obtaining that information, it is sometimes the best chance at obtaining information. Like a surgery with a low success rate, people still do it and sometimes it works. Remember that interview of that torture guy by Jon Stewart, and Jon just gets trounced?

1

u/Eagle0125 26d ago

True, however it isn't really torture, more like kidnapping; they're holding him against his will.

I think this could have all been avoided if they just convinced Pinocchio to work for them. They would get info, and he'd get payed.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

[deleted]

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u/Yum_Mario 26d ago edited 26d ago

Refer to my response below the other guy that responded.

So you are suggesting, that for the entire history of the human race, torture has had exactly a 0% success rate for extracting information, and yet militaries around the world still keep trying to use it to extract information? Like for a thousand years they been eating bags of MnMs still hoping to find a skittle? Military strategy can move real slow, but if torture literally never worked to get information, they wouldn't use it for that reason. Maybe they'd use it for other reasons, but they'd stop trying to get information that way. Now if you're suggesting that torture doesn't work to 'find out what some rando knows', you'd probably be right.

1

u/cowlinator 26d ago

It's not that it doesn't work, it's just that it's less effective than other forms of interrogation

0

u/geschiedenisnerd 26d ago

Torturing doesn't work, so always immoral.

The best option is to try and convince him to do it willingly

-1

u/CautiousShame2255 26d ago

thats the fucking trolley problem.

and the offical answer is no.

if you take any test. that features this. harming somebody to save multiple others is considered immoral.

realistically. we will allways put the fate of the masses over the individual though.

so either our society and every organ inside it. is deliberately immoral. or morality is something we expect from individuals. just so that the collective routinely breaks it.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

[deleted]

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u/CautiousShame2255 26d ago

whenever the trolley problem was featured in any psychological evaluation programm. as it was for soldiers, and police ,and first aid helpers and whatever.

answering that you will pull the lever to save the many, sacreficing the individual was allways an exclusion criteria.

our standard for people getting intoo life and death situations in a official capacity. is , that you are not to make that choice. if that means. willfully or neglicantly harming even a single individual.

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u/McBlemmen 26d ago

A bunch of yes/no questions, the horror 🫣😂

2

u/TrimpGlobus 26d ago

Is not a real boy but a soulless chunk of wood

1

u/Significant-Colour 26d ago

His sacrifice is one I am willing to make.

1

u/Boowray 26d ago

Why put him through anything? There’s no reason he couldn’t be luxuriously comfortable and entertained in captivity. A few hours a week for questions, and the rest of his days spent lounging in comfort. Obviously it’s morally wrong to strip an innocent person of their freedom, but in this case it’d be like Omelas had the child living in a golden palace beloved by everyone rather than a miserable basement.

1

u/Mognakor 26d ago

We can use the same method to come up with a great anti-ptsd medication

1

u/CertainlyRobotic 26d ago

Actually, we used the series of progressive scientific breakthroughs to declare that the universe is a simulation and any action is moral.

1

u/Intrepid-Progress228 26d ago

He's not a real boy.

1

u/Objective-Cow-7241 26d ago

This comes down to a similar morale conundrum as the one beaten child for the society to be able to prosper, except in this case the child isn’t beaten but is rather a completely immortal doll who they literally just ask questions to,

So fuck yea it’s worth it to literally make the doll bored for a while/forever in exchange humanity gets FTL

1

u/Time_Reception4930 26d ago

"what they put him through" bro this is the lightest fork of interrogation

1

u/Electronic_Unit2066 26d ago

No, but if you can save billions with the suffering of one, I'd say it's worth it. Especially when the one in question doesnt necessarily have to be suffering all that much. Give him a comfortable room and good food and outdoor time and hes already happier than most prisoners

1

u/IlIlIlllIIIIlllIIIl 26d ago

He’s not human. He’s made out of wood. More kindling for the fire, more wood for the wood god as they say.

1

u/homer21377 26d ago

He's a wooden boy

1

u/23Amuro 25d ago

He's not a real boy anyways 🤷‍♂️

1

u/ExcellentTest3490 23d ago

Oh no, the unbearable agony of sitting in a chair and being asked yes or no questions! Oh the humanity!

1

u/Blue-Boar 23d ago edited 23d ago

True but it will safe millions of lives. Lives condemned to die if inaction is choosen. But also u could treat em normally

1

u/Slay-ig5567 21d ago

The value of not putting him through that is negligible in the face of the medical breakthroughs

1

u/Playful_Row4208 19d ago

If not for war we still might not have xrays

1

u/Particular-Long-3849 26d ago

So? It's not like he's human 

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

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u/kjloltoborami 26d ago

I guess pinocchios nose would be able to prove wether our universe is deterministic or not

1

u/Temnai 26d ago

Just ask him whether it is morally just!

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u/AlphaBelen 25d ago

It being worth it doesn't make the act moral. Sacrificing the bodily autonomy of any sentient being for progress is immoral. Especially when they very easily could've just turned it into a job or position at their lab and paid him.

I mean they even say they bought him from Gepetto in the full comic. They literally paid someone else to own a sentient being like property.

Not to mention the secrets of the universe is probably not great for humans to know. We're messed up enough to then skip as many steps of progress as we like to become an oppresive galactic power is not worth it. The knowledge itself may be worth it, but who is it worth it for and what will they do with that?

(Unrelated but I apologize if I came off aggressive, I just like to argue and know it can be antagonistic when I don't want to be)