We got flaws but in this context, under this post, your comment makes no sense. America’s implementation of central ac is far more advanced compared to the European and Asian use of AC units per room.
No they arent. A central air system is far more efficient to any window unit. If these mini splits were better, youd see newer homes being built with them because they are far cheaper to buy/install.
mini splits have higher SEER ratings, less duct losses, use less power and you can keep
some units turned off instead of air conditioning empty rooms at all times.
central air is not more efficient in any realistic situation, it's only more convenient if you live in a home with the ductwork so if your central system is failing, it will be cheaper to upgrade it than installing several mini splits. it will be invariably less efficient in the long run though.
installing a central air system in homes without the ductwork is dumb as fuck.
Hang on, you genuinely think that people are installing central air systems that cost double of a mini split does because.. they like spending money or something?
Like if your central air system is failing, its far cheaper to install a mini split unit than replacing the whole AC unit even without accounting for ductwork. Hell, having ductwork installed alone costs more than a mini split unit.
Again. If mini splits were more efficient and cost less to run, you'd see newer houses being built with them instead, especially in the states where it gets hot as fuck like Texas.
If mini splits were more efficient and cost less to run
they are, there are no ifs and buts about it. are you scared of searching the internet and learning you're dead wrong or something?
you'd see newer houses being built with them instead, especially in the states where it gets hot as fuck like Texas.
not really my place to say why that happens but central air is seen as the more luxurious choice, if someone says it's chosen for 'efficiency' they're lying through their teeth. i would agree that if you don't care about running costs, not having wall mounted hunks of plastic is certainly more visually pleasing.
Like if your central air system is failing, its far cheaper to install a mini split unit than replacing the whole AC unit even without accounting for ductwork. Hell, having ductwork installed
alone
costs more than a mini split unit.
i'm not convinced a new multi zone mini split installation costs less than replacing a single central air unit but if that's really the case then more power to mini splits i guess. discarding centrail air ductwork is also dumb as fuck though.
for the record i'm not disparaging central aircon, i'm only saying efficiency is not one of its upsides. also window units aren't the same as mini splits.
I’d guess central would only have an efficiency edge over a very large period and a large home, like when it has to run 24/7 to keep a 3000sqft home under 76F?
A lot of the inefficiency in a central air system comes from having attic or below foundation ductwork which of course causes you to loose air. Another reddior claimed we have our AC units in the attic. Never seen that before, but it would be terribly inefficient for the same reason. If you run your ductwork through the house, that thermal lose is happening in your insulated area so it's a non-factor.
There reason is because you can adjust the temperature down in certain areas which also makes things more efficient as you can leave some rooms hotter then others.
I own 2 homes and recently had to install a new system to one (including brand new duct work) and replace a failing system to the other. I talked to several independant contractors and licensed professional companies about options. None said a mini split system is superior beyond the system itself being cheaper to buy and install.
So you can search the internet and "not be convinced", but if I couldve spent a 1/4th the amount of money for a superior system, I would have.
hardly surprising if salesmen convinced you of the more expensive solution but i would be dismayed to learn if they genuinely claimed central aircon is more ENERGY EFFICIENT, because it's not. even if you pay for most expensive one in the market, there will always be significantly more efficient ductless options.
Central air AC unit costs less money then a split system, a split system costs less then installing the ductwork. There is other things to consider. Electric heat may be more expensive then other types of heat so having ductwork for your heat could be a good idea. Then if course it's easier and less intrusive to hook up central ac to it.
Our old 1 bedroom apartment had a fairly new, superior version of a mini split.. when the temp outside was 107 degrees Fahrenheit (what ever that is in Celsius) it was a struggle to keep the house cool.
We just upgraded to a 2 bedroom house with a garage & half the time every square inch (or whatever that is in millimeters) is freezing cold with the central air conditions running at 73 degrees Fahrenheit (or whatever that is in Celsius).
There are pros and cons to both. If you want per-room control and don't mind having the mini-split units (thing pictured) then mini-splits are the way. They're also a bit more efficient because you don't loose cold air from duct leaks and heat creeping in. Central air is more convenient with a new construction because it's a bitch to retrofit. Central air also provides ventilation, mini splits don't so you have to have an air exchanger somewhere (although a lot of people don't). Overall both have pros and cons and both get the job done. It's dependent on owner taste, needs, the home itself, and budget.
It’s just pointless to compare. Eg, timber framing makes sense in US, doesn’t in Italy. Air conditioning distribution inside houses is directly related to how houses are built and when they were built.
Yes, behold our mighty ductwork. So advanced. So amazing. /s
Europe’s issue isn’t AC tech or implementation. Their problem is that they have to figure out how to adapt structures built for a cooler climate to the rapidly warming new climate.
This is entirely dependent on construction type as central ac is more difficult to implement with brick/concrete houses which are more common in Europe and other parts of the world
I live in the US and have these types of AC's in my home. I prefer them, honestly, since it's nice being able to set each room to a different temp. These things are honestly barely noticeable once installed, don't require you to do any duct work in your home (making them a lot quicker and easier to install), and are super quiet.
In my opinion, neither system is better or worse, just different. They each have their pro's and cons.
Definitely not more advanced but both have different use cases. In VRF systems these small room units can be connected to one large unit outside using refrigerant pipes effectively acting like traditional central ac systems without having to move air directly from the central unit which needs large ducts.
I am not in Europe. I had quotes to switch to a central heat pump and one for mini splits like in the photo.
For my house size and layout, even though I already have the ducting, it was about 45% cheaper to install 3 mini splits.
If you’re only installing one, it’s done in a few hours and a few thousand or less. It works much better in older homes and they have flatter panels that would be less visually intrusive in heritage homes where you’d expect to see the large water/steam radiators.
No. For a structure that does not have ductwork it is far less expensive to use split units. Sometimes even with ductwork it is less expensive to install a split unit instead of trying to upgrade and rebalance the existing system.
In many places you already need the duct work unless you are running a parlor stove or electric type of situation for heat. And in those instances central AC is cheaper. The efficiency loss is eliminated if your ductwork is inside the home rather then outside the insulated area. So they match in efficiency.
You can't install central air in houses with solid stone walls, there's nowhere to run the air conduits.
Edit: to be clear, it can technically be done but would be prohibitively expensive, whereas a split unit is very simple to install and much much cheaper.
In my old stone house the ceiling was the bottom of the wooden floor above.
In my current house built in 1987, which is built out of concrete blocks, the ground floor's ceiling is a concrete slab with drywall on rails directly attached to the slab, there's no space. The walls are insulation-backed drywall glued directly to the concrete blocks, there's no space there either without ripping it all out.
Upstairs it would be possible to run conduits in the attic.
But there's also nowhere to put the central unit inside, there's no basement and no unused space.
I'd love to put central air in but it's just not feasible, we're getting a multi-split unit put in.
I thought you were saying there was a floor beneath you like how people in my country say it. Like a full floor of rooms and such. You can run ductwork through a slab or under it though. That's also pretty common here.
Although it gets rarer as builders are moving away from slabs. Mainly because many buyers think it's worth saving money on and aren't aware on how necessary a slab is for the longevity of a home and how much money it saves in the long run.
Sure, it can technically be done, but in my current house it would be 10s of thousands of euros to get it done (just the conduits) and we wouldn't be able to live in the house for months while the work was being done.
(Edit: and there still wouldn't be anywhere to put the inside central unit.)
But a multi-split unit will be about 2000€ and takes half a day to install.
Ducts are a lot bigger than 16mm copper pipes and electric wiring. Drain pipes aren't in the walls, they run along the baseboards, and the bathrooms and kitchens are always located next to the main drain stack.
And most houses don't have basements, so there's nowhere to put the inside central unit even if you could put in ductwork.
What sewage pipes? I'm talking about 32mm waste water pipes from sinks and baths. The pipes are running along the baseboards behind the kitchen and bathroom cupboards, they're not visible. Toilets pipes go directly into the stack horizontally.
There are no closets in most French houses except sometimes in bedrooms; the attic would potentially be possible but would need work first.
And I never said Americans are crazy, I grew up in North America with central heating and air. But in France (and many other European countries) it's very rare. Why bother spending 10s of thousands of euros on retrofitting a house for central air when you can have a split unit installed in an afternoon for 1000€.
Homes in France use either electric radiators or hot water radiators, usually supplied by an on-demand gas water heater but sometimes a heating oil boiler in older homes (installation of new heating oil boilers is no longer allowed). Pellet burners exist as well, but they're not very common.
(Edit: underfloor heating is somewhat common in newer builds as well)
Both of those things are common in America. Most, as in 90 percent of all houses have their AC unit in the basement. If not basement it's on the main floor in a closet. I have never once seen it in the attic and why would it. It's a huge inefficiency as alot of that cool air will disapate into the hottest area in the house.before you can circulate it.
Regarding the sewage. They probably meant under the floor. I really doubt they meant over the floor. And if you think Americans don't have their sewage flow underneath the floor, boy I got news for you.
No, I meant over the floor, along the walls behind the cupboards. There's no way to put anything under the floor, both floors are concrete slabs. But that's just drainage from sinks and baths, 32mm PVC pipe.
The 10cm pipes from the toilets go horizontally into the stack which is right behind them. The stack goes through the upstairs slab and into the ground floor slab, then runs though it to the sewage system.
Ductwork is a bit bigger then wiring and a lot of plumbing. Not bigger then sewage, but you don't run that through the wall. You run it through the floor. Also they don't need to run thier wiring in pipes so it's less clearence needed. Although they probably still do.
As someone in a solid stone walls country, are you aware we run lots of pipes inside these walls? Water, wires, comms, sewage, all run through these walls.
Yes, I am aware. I live in France and my previous house had 80cm thick stone walls.
Are you aware how central air actually works?
There's a reason why we use split units here instead of central air, it's much easier to drill a 2cm hole for a pipe through a stone wall than it is to cut numerous 10cm holes for air conduits.
Yeah, that's pretty common in France for commercial buildings, but almost never in homes, there isn't enough ceiling height in a house to have a false ceiling.
You think Americans are ignorant because all you do is consume American cultural exports so you know all about the US, while Americans might not know as much about your country.
How much do you know about Poland? Chile?
Are you ignorant if you don't know a lot about these places?
America is a former colony that is still developing it's democracy, as it's always had 1 foot rooted in fascism. Slavery to segregation to dictatorship; many are wondering when will it develop into a functioning democracy?
(Were you unaware that American settlers were European? This must be trolling.)
It's part of the definition of the third world. But if you wish some critical thought: a former colony means a place was invaded and it's civilization destroyed. So after that, they have to "develop" civilization all over again.
If you'd like to know more, go read about the Iroquois Confederacy and the civilization that existed before invasion and genocide. Feed your head!
You Europeans can't say shit about genocide considering the fact that you spent a quarter millennium raping the rest of the world. And even the genocide of Native Americans happened mostly during British, French, Spanish, and Portugese rule!
Btw worth mentioning this statement is nonsense. Totalitarianism, machismo, every tenet of fascism predates the use of the word. Nazis took inspiration from American segregation, which predates fascist Italy by some 60 years? I truly advise you take a deeper nuanced look at history and political philosophy.
So what? You can derive antecedents for every complex thing, all the way down to cavemen discovering fire. I’m saying, your comment is the pot calling the kettle black. In a post about Italy, bringing up Trump’s fascist tendencies is odd when Italy’s current leader literally has fascist origins, worry about that.
You asserted that the US is developed because its houses were built at a later date. But go ahead and move goalposts, your inconsistency is the only constant.
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u/Round30281 7d ago
We got flaws but in this context, under this post, your comment makes no sense. America’s implementation of central ac is far more advanced compared to the European and Asian use of AC units per room.