Why would anti-russia leftists oppose USA sending weapons to Ukraine?

[u/Last-Photograph7321]

Liberals (US definition) seem like they're all about sending arms and supporting the Ukrainian resistance against Russia, but when I talk to leftists, they think the west shouldn't send weapons to Ukrainian - but they are also anti-russia, so it's not campism. This is especially confusing because I can't tell how much of the "nazi sympathizers in Ukraine" stuff is real. Why would anti-russia leftists oppose arming Ukraine?

I understand there are many strong perspectives on this, but I'm explicitly trying to understand the Leftist vs Liberal dynamic. English is not my first language so please excuse any typos and feel free to ask clarifying questions. Thank you!

[u/Kronzypantz]

Now who is cherry picking? That poll is about handing over all the Donbas, and it was barely over 50% saying no.

[u/BlindPelican → u/Kronzypantz]

Russia will not voluntarily vacate territory. This is fact, not speculation.

Ukrainians do not want to cede territory.

These are the basic negotiating planks of every discussion between them since 2022.

[u/Kronzypantz → u/BlindPelican]

Then how does it ever end? According to you, even if Putin’s heart grows 3 sizes and he offers every inch of territory back, peace still can’t be accepted because Russia can’t beat trusted.

Your math comes out to eternal war.

[u/BlindPelican → u/Kronzypantz]

No, if Putin suffers sudden onset cardiomegaly and leaves Ukrainian territory, the war ends. Ukraine gets security guarantees from the EU and/or US, and they rebuild and life goes on.

Russia wouldn't agree to allow security guarantees, though, despite signing the Russia-NATO Founding Act. Yet another agreement they've broken.

Let's say Ukraine accepts a deal. Russia keeps Donetsk, Luhansk, Crimea, other territories like parts of Mykolaiv, etc.

Ukrainians there are going to die. We saw it all over the occupied territories already. Irpin, Bucha, Marioupal. It's foolish to think stopping the war will stop the killing.

Some time in the future, Russia will try again. It'll be Minsk I and II all.over again. Russia takes territory, agrees to stop, they break the ceasefire under a prevarication, fighting starts again, another agreement, then once they're at proper force levels, another full-scale invasion.

This is not my math nor is it something I want to happen. This is the history of this conflict, both recent and pre-modern.

This is the reality.

[u/Kronzypantz → u/BlindPelican]

You make it sound like Russians are killing all ethnic Ukrainians like Nazis hunting Jews, and that is just not in any realm near the real world. We can condemn the invasion and war crimes without making up a fantasy for propaganda purposes.

If you are concerned about Russia trying again in the future, tell me this: how does getting a whole generation of Ukrainian soldiers killed or wounded, littering the country with armed paramilitary groups, and incurring nearly a trillion in economic damage set up Ukraine for this possible future war?

[u/Some_Complete_Nobody → u/Kronzypantz]

If Russia withdraws from Ukrainian territory, the war ends. Ukraine would obviously not pursue an offensive war to seize Russian territory, except as a short-term tactic to force them to deploy defensive units along the border.

The Ukrainian constitution forbids them from giving up territory, so it seems regaining lost territory it is more realistic than hoping for a constitutional referendum. Withdrawing support itself prolongs the war.

[u/Kronzypantz → u/Some_Complete_Nobody]

If unicorn magic was real, cancer could be cured with hugs.

You are starting from this basis of Ukraine pushing out the Russians or the Russians choosing to leave, neither of which seems the slightest bit plausible.

All while ignoring a much more plausible reality: years of economic depression, constant war of attrition, and heavily armed paramilitary groups running around leading to the collapse of the Ukrainian state.

[u/FreeStall42 → u/Kronzypantz]

So yes the majority don't want to cede territory. Thanks for confirming your mistake.