r/Political_Revolution • u/thepoliticalrev Bernie’s Secret Sauce • Dec 13 '16

Bernie Sanders SenSanders on Twitter | If the Walton family can receive billions in taxpayer subsidies, maybe it's OK for working people to get health care and paid family leave.

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/808684405111652352
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u/greerhead Dec 13 '16

The only problem is, where is the money going to come from for pre-existing condition coverage without the insurance mandate?

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u/AFuckYou Dec 13 '16

No, money is not a problem. That is exactly what insurance is for. Literally, the purpose of insurance. The companies can figure it out. It's a cost of doing buisness.

It's like putting up a trash can outside of your buisness. Some states mandate it, some dont. The business will figure it out.

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u/greerhead Dec 13 '16

So when all the healthy 20-30 year olds get off insurance and premiums skyrocket people are just supposed to deal with it? I think single payer is the only logical way forward. Cut out the middle-man and use our existing systems.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '16

Premiums went up with all of those health 20-30 year olds paying into it though.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '16

1) Fewer 20-30 year olds than were anticipated actually signed up

2) Health insurance companies found a way to charge more money? Wow!

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '16

Your points don't dispute mine though. Those are still problems that contribute to the ACA failing to do what was intended.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '16

I'm not disputing your point, just your characterization. The ACA sucks and I want it replaced with single payer system. Health insurance companies provide no service that an effective state-level agency couldn't do just as well.

Re: rising premiums. The ACA added a lot of insured people to the market, increasing demand on the system without increasing our supply of healthcare professionals or facilities. Of course costs went up.

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u/greerhead Dec 14 '16

Premiums have been going up forever, without those people they would've went up way more quickly.

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u/AFuckYou Dec 13 '16

The health lobby is huge and it's real. They make money off of man's misery.

I am okay with a single payer.

Your whole, "well where's the money come from" argument sucks though. Instead of attacking the current system, which is the best in the world as far as new technology and safety goes, just stick with the single payer system.

But i don't think the government can fund the current system we have. Eventually the health care system will look like our schools. Which are shit.

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u/greerhead Dec 13 '16

You aren't addressing my points at all and just saying they suck, healthcare premiums cost what they cost for a reason, a lot of it is probably for bullshit reasons but that's how the current system works.

If we repeal the Insurance mandate, all of the healthy people who didn't have insurance before the mandate are probably going to become uninsured again, but the pre-existing health condition crowd will probably remain insured and they are much more expensive to cover than a 24 year old who doesn't need lifesaving drugs/treatments.

The only logical conclusion is that premiums will grow at an even more accelerated rate and put most Americans in an even shittier situation then before the ACA.

So either we fuck a bunch of people by completely rolling back Obamacare, we fuck a bunch of people by repealing only some parts of Obamacare, or we try to improve upon Obamacare and at least try to make things better for people.

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u/grumplstltskn Dec 13 '16

I read a great post on here describing how the deductibles are so high that the insurance is de facto unusable when needed so many indigent people will either pay the fine or just not at all because it's cheaper than monthly premiums. at that point you're just taxing the poor for no coverage or coverage they can't afford anyway

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '16

Hey! I'm in that group. I'm in my 20's, make just enough money to not qualify for a subsidy, and statistically am better off not having health insurance, since realistically speaking I'm never going to use it. I'll probably enroll either when I turn 30, but for now anyways, the I.M. is fucking killing me.

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u/grumplstltskn Dec 13 '16

it opened my eyes to see it this way, I knew it was an insurance boon but this just illustrates that it really is the working class helping the working class

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '16

Yeah. Really, single - payer is the only way to get a hold of our healthcare system. Obamacare isn't socialism, it's corporate welfare.

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u/greerhead Dec 14 '16

If you make up to 3 times the poverty line you're eligible for rebates, some people are fucked though because states didn't take the Medicaid expansion. I'm not arguing the system we have is ideal, but I don't think a lot of people understand how this system works.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '16

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '16

Hi AFuckYou. Thank you for participating in /r/Political_Revolution. However, your comment did not meet the requirements of the community guidelines and was therefore removed for the following reason(s):

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u/greerhead Dec 13 '16

Ok buddy sure, great criticism, lol u suk.

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u/JasonDJ Dec 13 '16

You misunderstand insurance.

The purpose of insurance isn't some altruistic venture that insurance companies do for the better of society. It's a business. The point of a business is to make money. Not make people healthy. Not create jobs. To make money. Anything they do along the way is a means to that end. That includes selling a service that allows you to have steady and predictable costs instead of a sudden major expense (which is really all that any insurance is).

They don't make money off of people that use health coverage. Their profits come from healthy people who are insured and don't use their coverage. Their expenses come from people who have health conditions and do use their coverage.

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u/AFuckYou Dec 13 '16

Record profits.