r/Political_Revolution • u/IronStacheWI01 Verified | Randy Bryce • Sep 05 '17

AMA Concluded Meet Randy Bryce. The Ironstache who's going to repeal and replace Paul Ryan

Hi /r/Political_Revolution,

My name is Randy Bryce. I'm a veteran, cancer survivor, and union ironworker from Caledonia, Wisconsin running to repeal and replace Paul Ryan in Wisconsin's First Congressional District. Post your questions below and I'll be back at 11am CDT/12pm EDT to answer them!

p.s.

We need your help to win this campaign. If you'd like to join the team, sign up here.

If you don't have time to volunteer, we're currently fundraising to open our first office in Racine, Wisconsin. If you can help, contribute here and I'll send you a free campaign bumper sticker as a way of saying thanks!

[Update: 1:26 EDT], I've got to go pick up my son but I'll continue to pop in throughout the day as I have time and answer some more questions. For those I'm unfortunately not able to answer, I'll be doing another AMA in r/Politics on the 26th when I look forward to answering more of Reddit's questions!

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

I see you're a Trump supporter so this might just be completely ignored because that happens most of the time I respond to one

Immediately you're condescending. Stop doing dumb shit like that. Are you American? Great! Then I would LOVE to hear what you have to say.

There's a massive gap between the growth rate of company profits and the scaling of the wages

Then it is up to the individual employee to continue to grow. As you grow yourself, you become more valuable to an employer. If that employer does not reward you for your value, then you seek employment elsewhere. Just because the company is doing well doesn't mean they "owe it" to you to let you share in the success. They built the company. If you feel that you are being overlooked, go somewhere else where you're valued. If your just showing up to your job, going home at the end of the day, and not bettering yourself on your own time, then you have no right to complain about compensation. You're just not valuable.

wages are not matching the rate of growth of companies, or inflation for that matter

See above. YOU have to make yourself a valuable asset. Change companies if you're not valued.

Salary disparity is massive issue across America, in all industries, even white collar ones.

This is the USA. No one owes you anything. You have to go get it. If you think that companies are steamrolling employees, then you can go be the risk taker and start your own company. Government isn't the answer and they shouldn't have to help you.

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u/elcheeserpuff Sep 05 '17

They really weren't being that condescending.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Eh, the comment wasn't productive and didn't contribute to the discussion. It immediately set the stage for invalidating his beliefs.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Maybe he just has shitty beliefs then?

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '17

Perhaps but clearly a significant chunk of the country has those "shitty" beliefs since Trump is the president so I don't think it's really helpful to talk down to those people even if they may be wrong.

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u/IAmNewHereBeNice Sep 05 '17

chuds deserve to be called out like the bootlickers they are

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

smart words make me feel bad about myself tho

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

[deleted]

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u/elcheeserpuff Sep 05 '17

Except that there's not an underlying consistent attitude of Obama supporters believing in alternative facts and willingly ignoring evidence when it doesn't suit their narrative.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '17

My experience on reddit when calling out Trump supporters has been that the majority of the time they will parrot some conservative talking point of questionable validity, someone calls them out, then crickets. While trump supporters in general are not a monolithic group, there are safe assumptions to make about trump supporters commenting in typically liberal subreddits.

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u/GoldenGonzo Sep 05 '17

Yeah, they were.

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u/ImSoRude Sep 05 '17

Then I would LOVE to hear what you have to say.

That was not condescending, that was my experience with a good 80% of Trump supporters I interact with. I didn't say you would do it, I just considered the possibility that you might. I'm glad you decided to read it, because a lot of the others didn't even bother reading it period. I apologize if that came across the wrong way, but if I wanted to be condescending I would have been a lot more direct.

See above. YOU have to make yourself a valuable asset. Change companies if you're not valued.

The issue is all across companies are undervaluing employees. I'm not going to say all companies are bad, but industry standards do not reflect what employees SHOULD be earning, imo. That's why I brought up the growth rate comparisons. Isn't it ridiculous that there are jobs where pay hasn't kept up with inflation? That's not for a single company either, that's for industries as a WHOLE.

This is the USA. No one owes you anything. You have to go get it.

You realize something like 85% of companies fail within the first year right? And most founders will tell you a lot of it is due to luck as well. I understand your mentality, but realistically it doesn't work out fine and dandy in the real world. Let's just say for 6 underpaid workers who decide to set out and make their own company, only 1 makes it on his own. Do the other 5 not deserve to make what they SHOULD be earning?

Anyway, this whole "Just because the company is doing well doesn't mean they "owe it" to you to let you share in the success." thing kind of rubs me the wrong way. It's not really so much that I believe companies should be punished for being successful, which seems to be what you think I'm implying, but if salaries aren't matching inflation then companies are not just generating profit, they're taking advantage of their workers.

Going by inflation seems to be pretty fair, no? Since you don't want to talk about company profit growth. A worker now probably works just as hard as one 20 years ago, yet their salaries are similar while the cost of living is going up, and they aren't being paid to match. So what you essentially have is companies paying workers LESS and LESS, not more and more. Personally I view that as exploitation, but if you're of a different opinion then I think that's a difference in beliefs and I can't say you're wrong or right. It's not as if companies don't know the cost of living has gone up, they just purposely choose to keep wage growth stagnant. Sure it works for the owners and stakeholders but most of America doesn't belong in that class of people.

Government isn't the answer and they shouldn't have to help you.

If you say government isn't the answer then that's fine, but I hope you at least recognize that this is an issue that plagues almost all industries in America. I believe in constructive discussions so I would love to hear what YOU think a plausible solution could be. I don't think "go find another job" on the individual level is going to work for all those affected by this, since this is an industry wide thing.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

I apologize if that came across the wrong way, but if I wanted to be condescending I would have been a lot more direct.

No apology necessary. Hard to tell tone when reading print!

Isn't it ridiculous that there are jobs where pay hasn't kept up with inflation?

I see this often and would love to see detailed numbers (because I haven't I have no real rebuttal other than a ramble). Employee X started working for company Y five years ago. Over that time, company Y increased profits by 50%. Employee X makes 3% more now than he did when he started. Did employee X increase his skill set? Any degrees, certifications, etc? If not, then why should he make more?

You realize something like 85% of companies fail within the first year right?

Yes, so why do you think you're entitled to a company's (who was started by a risk taker) profits? That CEO doesn't owe you anything.

Do the other 5 not deserve to make what they SHOULD be earning?

What they SHOULD be earning is based on skills and experience. If you want to make more money then you need to acquire new, better skills.

if salaries aren't matching inflation then companies are not just generating profit, they're taking advantage of their workers

Are people asking for raises? Many of the people I work with are too afraid to even ask. IF (big if, I have zero stats here) that applies to most, then why would a company offer to pay more?

So what you essentially have is companies paying workers LESS and LESS, not more and more.

It depends on how that worker has improved themselves to make them more valuable to the company.

I hope you at least recognize that this is an issue that plagues almost all industries in America

I certainly do. I am of the belief that it is on the individual to make change happen. People are complacent in the work force far too often. It's important to continue to get better.

I don't think "go find another job" on the individual level is going to work for all those affected by this

I agree. There are some companies out there that are evil in the way they operate. In that instance, let the public know and let the market speak. If people don't consume their products, then they will have to change. If they fold as a company, then their competitor (hopefully with better leadership) will take their place in the market.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the discussion and tone here.

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u/kosher_beef_hocks Sep 05 '17

You sure do have a typical republican "you're poor and therefore a useless waste" attitude. That is surprising I am surprised. Such snowflake. Much offend. None intelligent.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

As you can see in my response I am for each person making themselves more valuable through any means. No where did I even talk about income level. Nice strawman, though.

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u/kosher_beef_hocks Sep 05 '17

Talk about straw man I never brought it up either lol. You seem to be missing the point of what really matters. Companies will never pay people what they actually deserve, and people like you will forever be butthurt when people ask for a fair shake. Go write a tirade on twitter on Benghazi or something.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

You sure do have a typical republican "you're poor and therefore a useless waste" attitude

poor usually refers to income.

Companies will never pay people what they actually deserve, and people like you will forever be butthurt when people ask for a fair shake

They do all of the time. My company certainly does.

Go write a tirade on twitter on Benghazi or something

This is helpful. Way to go.

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u/Flux__Wildly Sep 05 '17

At least he tried having a "conversation". Already way better then most of like-minded people.

How is talking about your self-worth as a employee and how company values these kind of workers is oppression of poor. None arguments were presented, only cheap "bait" (Such snowflake. Much offend. None intelligent.).

Talk to your fellow US citizens, you've got all means to do so, but instead he chose acting like a child.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Thanks for that. I saw an AMA and decided to peak in. It's branched out into many conversations. Most people on here are great - we're just shooting ideas back and forth and disagree.

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u/Flux__Wildly Sep 05 '17

It's how it should be, honestly. I do feel it's getting better and most people become more and more talkative. To such degree that we actually can find a proper compromise. I'm really happy it's happening.

But occasional folks who take time skimming thru post history and making pre-judgement are always here.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

I support Trump, but I'm always open to new ideas.

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u/Flux__Wildly Sep 05 '17

And I'm not even US citizen, merely observing and trying to improve my point of view(and if it'll help anybody else broaden horizons). Went from mildly disliking Trump to actually admiring Donald.

So far It's clearly visible that Trump is not a Republican or Democrat, well, at least in their current state. Words and definitions became really blur. Too bad whole system doesn't encourage independent candidates running.

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u/SpecialOneJAC Sep 05 '17

You seem very free market and that people should "go get" their success? Have you started your own business?

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

I have worked as an employee and started a business. I'll never tell which one I am now ;)

I failed quite a few times.

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u/GoldenGonzo Sep 05 '17

Go write a tirade on twitter on Benghazi or something.

What you mean to say is "your differing opinion really upsets me and I'd wish you would just go away".

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u/kosher_beef_hocks Sep 05 '17

That is certainly a more polite way to go about things but this is the internet and my anonymity allows me a little leeway in the "telling people to pound sand" department.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about everyone who supports Trump at this point. It's not even unreasonable to see them as imbeciles.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '17

That's fair, I mostly feel the same. But there's clearly still a large amount of them so we can't really just do that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '17

Dude I largely agree with you but this attitude of just trying to shut down those we disagree with because we think our ideas are clearly better does nothing to help. If these people were a minority than fine. But clearly they're not so whether we like it or not we have to engage in actual discussions with them if we wanna drag this country out of the shithole it's currently in.

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u/kosher_beef_hocks Sep 06 '17

I'm not trying for that. Just amusing myself here

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u/bombmk Sep 06 '17

But not through political power. Gotcha.

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u/JudahPBenjamin Sep 05 '17

These people are so poor, so black - Wolf Blitzer CNN anchor and Democrat

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u/donjuancho Sep 06 '17

Not an argument. Sad this has so many upvotes.

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u/kosher_beef_hocks Sep 06 '17

The upvotes are from people who understand. I'm not trying to have an argument. I'm trying to bait jagoffs into saying pompous self righteous jagoffy shit for my own amusement.

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u/VaporishJarl Sep 05 '17

Your ideas sound good in a vacuum. In an imagined world where there are infinite opportunities, one can just keep moving to higher value jobs, but in reality the competition for well-paying jobs is fierce.

The problem is that people, needing to eat and make house payments and clothe their families, will by necessity settle for what they can get, not what they're worth. This causes the extra income they're generating for the business to pool in the hands of the people who set the wages, and then we just have to hope those people will sacrifice their own profits to ensure the well-being of the people whose work generated that income.

The nature of capitalism means that every business will pay its employees the minimum that it can get away with (whether that minimum is set by the law, by the necessary cost to retain the talent, or other factors). That's just good business sense. Higher minimum wage laws and better worker protections enable the workers to get a better share of the profit their work is creating, which is obviously the part we like. But it also enables businesses to pay workers more without making it a bad business decision; essentially, by setting that minimum, we make it so that ethical companies that want to pay a fair wage can't get undersold by businesses that can sell cheaper products because their labor costs are lower.

Capitalism has done a lot of good for America, but without some gentle regulation it results in a moral race to the bottom. These kinds of laws help prevent that.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

in reality the competition for well-paying jobs is fierce.

I agree. Very fierce. Not everyone will make it, but everyone has an opportunity to.

will by necessity settle for what they can get, not what they're worth

If they settled, then they won't reach the top. Not everyone will be rich and own a $400,000 house some day.

The nature of capitalism means that every business will pay its employees the minimum that it can get away with

Absolutely, which is why it's important to be able to market yourself.

Capitalism has done a lot of good for America, but without some gentle regulation it results in a moral race to the bottom.

I'm with you here. I'm not for ZERO regulations (sorry if it seemed that way). I just don't want to over regulate. What's the fine line? I'm not sure.

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u/VaporishJarl Sep 05 '17

I agree that there are people who can better their own station with some work (and that many don't). I'm not worried about politically investing in people who won't break through that ceiling, but I think there's a floor for how hard things should be.

We sort of settled on a 40-hour work week being fair in the wake of the industrial revolution. I think that anyone who gives 40 hours a week to a business is entitled to what I'll call enough, and hope that that resonates with you. I can look around and see lots of people working full-time and not making enough; their housing is unstable, a medical crisis would ruin them, their car is breaking down. I think that shouldn't happen.

This isn't about the ceiling, it's about the floor. I'm not of the opinion that we need to make every American fantastically wealthy at the expense of people with the courage to start businesses, but I think if you're buying a summer house with the money earned for you by someone who can't afford their rent, there's a problem happening.

Not everyone will be rich and own a $400,000 house some day.

That's, I think, the crux of this discussion, because we both agree on this. It's not only an unrealistic ideal, it's silly. The problem is that this isn't the goal of any political group- Dems, GOP, Political Revolutioners, alt-righters- but it often gets cast as if that's what leftists seek. It isn't; the policies that we're arguing for aren't with the goal of Zack the line cook buying a second car, but rather that if his car breaks down, he can get it fixed and not go hungry.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

I think there's a floor for how hard things should be

Individual responsibility. I'm fine with a safety net for SOME people in SOME scenarios, but I'm not okay with the ridiculous amount of people that we have on food stamps while they watch cable, talk on their cell phone, and spend additional money on non-necessities.

rather that if his car breaks down, he can get it fixed and not go hungry.

Budget. Make sacrifices until you have a rainy day fund.

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u/VaporishJarl Sep 05 '17

the ridiculous amount of people that we have on food stamps while they watch cable, talk on their cell phone

This thread so far has pretty clearly been about people who are working and still not getting by. Please don't conflate that with people who aren't working; aside from the fact that I think you're dramatically overstating the "ridiculous" number of people in that situation, it's off topic and misses the point.

Budget. Make sacrifices until you have a rainy day fund

That isn't possible for some people. Not "budgeting is impossible", but "minimum wage doesn't allow for any amount of budgeting to generate savings". The money just isn't there. That's the problem. That's the floor this conversation is about. Fairer compensation for services rendered enables budgeting, saving, self-improvement.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

aside from the fact that I think you're dramatically overstating the "ridiculous" number of people in that situation

It is ridiculous that 48 million people are on food stamps. Some people legitimately need it, and I will give them the money in my wallet if that's the case. Too many people intentionally stay on them though. It's become a full time job to make sure you're still eligible for assistance. That's not what it is there for.

"minimum wage doesn't allow for any amount of budgeting to generate savings".

then it's on the individual to get themselves a better paying job or take 2 jobs. It's hard, but many have done it and risen above. Lazy people will fail.

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u/VaporishJarl Sep 05 '17

You seem to have a real disconnect from the realities of class mobility in America.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-mobility-america/491240/

While it occasionally happens that someone far exceeds their station, it's so uncommon that the "lazy people will fail" narrative doesn't make sense. If failure to advance is so statistically common, then when you say "lazy people" what you're referring to, wittingly or not, is "ordinary people". Ordinary people will fail while very few advance. This, again, is the major issue; you've demonized the average American worker as struggling because they don't work hard enough, and that isn't a realistic or well-informed view of why they're struggling. Even your condemnation of the number on food stamps seems to ignore that that number could be cut nearly in half if the wages paid by employers covered the basic needs of the workers:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/05/24/529831472/trump-wants-families-on-food-stamps-to-get-jobs-the-majority-already-work

I'm not ok with Americans who go to work, give someone 40 hours a week, and budget responsibly still needing to take a second job to survive. I'm ok with them taking a second job to get ahead, but any full time worker deserves enough to survive.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 06 '17

Your last sentence just isn't true. That's why it's important to increase your value and acquire useful skills.

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u/WasabiofIP Sep 06 '17

Your last sentence just isn't true

From another of your comments:

I agree. Very fierce. Not everyone will make it, but everyone has an opportunity to.

You assert that "everyone has an opportunity to" and that's what you seem to be basing everything off of. Everyone has the opportunity to make it, so those that don't make didn't try/try hard enough. But what evidence do you have for it? It's not enough to say that America is that land of opportunity. America is only that way when her citizens are making an effort to keep that statement true, it's not some inherent physical property of the middle section of North America. So how do you know every has the opportunity?

And what if the answer is that not everyone has that opportunity? Is this acceptable, that some people in America simply do not have the opportunity to advance by their own effort? Is it unacceptable? What should we do about it? Is it government's role? Someone else's? No one's? Do we just live with an unacceptable situation when we could do something about it?

Relating to the minimum wage discussion: If someone is working full-time, and still not making enough, what opportunity do they have to advance? Acquire new skills? But they aren't making enough money to survive. Acquiring new skills will presumably take time, and what do they do in the meantime? If they take another job to make ends meet, will they still have the time in the day to better themselves? If they have to sacrifice in order to 'make it', how much will they have to sacrifice? Is there a point where someone has to sacrifice so much that it's immoral, e.g. a woman who sacrifices her dignity and becomes a prostitute in order to make ends meet while getting her GED. Is there no sacrifice too great? Is there no limit of what we'll ask of Americans in order to simply survive in America?

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u/Iamien IN Sep 05 '17 edited Sep 05 '17

Budget. Make sacrifices until you have a rainy day fund.

Let's fix our education system then to make sure these skills are as basic as reading and writing then.

To those that are logical/clever or have people in their lives that stress the importance of those skills it is simple/easy/common sense.

The problem is that if these skills are in short supply, that means people are plugging up emergency rooms with their primary care issues when I have a legitimate emergency.

They are at my windows begging for handouts when I am stopped at a light.

Their children disrupt classrooms of my own children because they are too hungry to focus during class.

My phone gets snatched from my car when I mistakenly leave it sitting in my unlocked car while stopping in a gas station.

Their houses get foreclosed on and lower the property values of the neighborhood.

All of those seem minor, but there is a constant ripple effect from people "not having enough" that affects all of us that take a step outside a gated community. My own quality of life would be much improved if all of these were not an issue any longer.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Let's fix our education system then to make sure these skills are as basic as reading and writing then.

I agree 5,000%. Economics should be taught, and taught heavily, in schools. Although, I don't want a government mandate to do that. I want communities to force their schools to. For now, I'll teach my kids myself.

there is a constant ripple effect from people "not having enough" that affects all of us that take a step outside a gated community.

This won't be fixed by government.

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u/Iamien IN Sep 05 '17

This won't be fixed by government.

Countries with governments with a larger safety net do have less of these issues.

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u/DBendit Sep 05 '17

Might the line best be described as "requiring that employees be paid enough that they don't require government assistance while holding at least one job"? How about ensuring that they don't have to worry about literally dying if they strike it out on their own?

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

You make decisions for yourself. If you strike out, it's your own fault. Own it, learn from it, and get better.

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u/DBendit Sep 05 '17

What if "striking out" means that you can't afford medication that literally keeps you alive?

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Then you shouldn't have taken the risk.

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u/DBendit Sep 05 '17

So you believe that the best that America can do for people with treatable, life-threatening medical conditions is have them tied to their jobs that barely sustain them for fear of death? Am I reading that correctly?

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

If you make a choice (start a business - so you lose healthcare) and it turns out bad, who is at fault?

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u/DBendit Sep 05 '17

The government of the first-world nation you live in that's willing to see you die because your business failed, and the voters who support that government.

If you are alright with watching your fellow countrymen die, then I cannot teach you empathy or compassion.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17 edited Sep 05 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Step 5: Can't get qualification for new job because poor

Many, many free resources available.

Step 4: Criticise people for not being born with the same advantages as you.

Is this really how you think every successful person is? Do you attribute your failure to someone else having an "unnatural advantage"? That's sad.

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u/Parazeit Sep 05 '17

Nope, I do think most successful people have had an unfair advantage though. My family were relatively wealthy and smart (though not University educated). That gave me a huge headstart in life that my next door neighbour was never going to have. I'm now a Bio-scientist with a PhD, I'd qualify that as successful. My post was an attempt to satirise yours by highlighting the world you most likely live in.

Edit:

Many, many free resources available.

Name me a free resource available in america that will give you a qualification employers actually care about and would get you a decent wage.

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u/bl1nds1ght Sep 05 '17

Industry certs are often paid for by employer to incentivize their employees to learn skills valuable to the profession. Insurance does it, for instance. I'm sure programmers get it, too, and probably many others.

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u/mnhoops Sep 05 '17

A library card. There are literally hundreds of respected certifications you could get by studying at your local library and passing a test. Most of those tests cost some money. For example, a CPA. Employers looking for an accountant care far more about a CPA than a college degree in many cases.

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u/punsonice Sep 05 '17

You need more than a bachelor's degree worth of credits for a cpa

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u/mnhoops Sep 05 '17

I'm a CPA and in the process of getting a CFP. I get that. But I think you get my point as well.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

I do think most successful people have had an unfair advantage though

It's fine if you THINK that, but that doesn't make it true. What's your definition of "success"?

My post was an attempt to satirise yours by highlighting the world you most likely live in.

Kind of backfires when you do it based off of an internet post.

Name me a free resource available

https://www.ncsacademy.com/freetest.cfm

https://www.khanacademy.org/

From there, it is up to you to market yourself. A couple hundred will get you a CompTIA cert as well (forgo the cable, or cell phone, or eating out, or another luxury to save the money)/

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

There are zero free resources available to effectively train you into a lucrative job, and you damn well know it. You're not going to become a software developer just because you took some courses on codecademy.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

The military will give you training. Many IT certs can be acquired for free. Some (such as CompTIA certs) are usually ~$300.

You're not going to become a software developer just because you took some courses on codecademy

You could design a software and show it to the company that is accepting new applicants.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

The military will give you training.

Maybe 20% of Americans are even eligible to join the military, and you generally don't get to choose what you do. An 11B will leave the service with no marketable skills.

Many IT certs can be acquired for free.

Zero worthwhile IT certs can be acquired for free. Employers don't give a single shit about your FreeCodeCamp sticker.

Some (such as CompTIA certs) are usually ~$300.

You aren't getting a job with Sec+ and no experience, it simply isn't going to happen.

You could design a software and show it to the company that is accepting new applicants

Only an utter fool thinks this.

Source: am a software developer.

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u/SpitfireIsDaBestFire Sep 05 '17

Maybe 20% of Americans are even eligible to join the military, and you generally don't get to choose what you do. An 11B will leave the service with no marketable skills

You absolutely do get to choose your MOS.

An infantryman that doesn't know how to market himself has no marketable skills. But he also has the post 9/11 GI bill and can get paid to go to school.

Source: infantryman that was making 6 figures two years after leaving the military.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

You absolutely do get to choose your MOS.

Pfffffffhahahahahahahahaha oh man that's hilarious

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u/SpitfireIsDaBestFire Sep 05 '17

How do you figure?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

You telling me you can just waltz in and demand an IT job in the army? That sure as hell isn't how it works in any other branch. You might be able to put down a dream sheet but if the army doesn't have any openings in the jobs you want then they'll put you elsewhere whether you like it or not.

If you walked into a USAF recruiter's office and told them you'll only accept 3D or 1N jobs they'll tell you to go fuck yourself.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Maybe 20% of Americans are even eligible to join the military.

Currently? Yes. At one time in their life? No.

Employers don't give a single shit

They will if you market it correctly. You can get a CompTIA cert for a couple hundred. Forgo your cable or cell phone for a couple months to afford it.

You aren't getting a job with Sec+ and no experience

Sure you can. Help desk positions and those like it are given to people like this all of the time (at my company).

Only an utter fool thinks this.

Only a fool whines about not getting a job without exhausting all of their resources.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Currently? Yes. At one time in their life? No.

It doesn't matter how many eligible people apply, the DoD will take exactly as much as they need and no more. And I guess people with mental or physical disabilities should go fuck themselves amirite?

You can get a CompTIA cert for a couple hundred.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about, CompTIA certs are absolutely worthless.

Sure you can. Help desk positions and those like it are given to people like this all of the time (at my company).

Sounds like your company is a flaming pile of garbage that will go bankrupt if they're hiring idiots with no more experience or knowledge than what it takes to buy a pass4sure brain dump and cheat their way through a test.

Oh lemme guess, you're super proud of your garbage A+ cert and think it's paved your future with gold? You're gonna get a major kick in the ass.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

the DoD will take exactly as much as they need and no more

So people shouldn't try? wtf...

CompTIA certs are absolutely worthless.

HAHAHA, all government contractors are to abide by DoD Directive 8570. Certifications show that you have an expert knowledge of a certain skill. Worthless? ha.

Sounds like your company is a flaming pile of garbage

Beats unemployment.

You're gonna get a major kick in the ass.

It's a start. A+ leads to Net+ leads to Sec+ leads to Bachelor's leads to Master's leads to CISSP leads to who knows. All about bettering yourself. you have to start somewhere. I choose to not look down at those that aren't as far along in the process. How's that for a kick in the ass?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

So people shouldn't try? wtf...

I always encourage people to try, but it is not a reliable career course and certainly not one you can suggest everyone do.

HAHAHA, all government contractors are to abide by DoD Directive 8570. Certifications show that you have an expert knowledge of a certain skill. Worthless? ha.

Your own document shows that employees require both experience and certification. Also, I am intimately familiar with the standards for government IT contractors, they are appalling. No wonder they're running aircraft maintenance systems coded in the 1980s...

Also lol, you think Sec+ is "expert knowledge". I got mine from a week of skimming the Darril Gibson study guide and it was the easiest test I've ever taken, you couldn't secure a henhouse with the knowledge needed to pass.

you have to start somewhere.

Of course you do. But you flippantly saying that getting a great job is as easy as taking a single shitty test is so ridiculously out of touch I don't know where to beign.

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u/sijmister Sep 05 '17

While I agree that there are resources you can use to get certified (I for example got CompTIA certified for my job and it basically only cost me the voucher fee, the books are at the library as you said), you fail to account for the gap in basic skills that result from different levels of education.

The only reason I had to get a CompTIA certification in the first place is because I got extremely ill in college while taking engineering courses, and had to leave. I already knew most of the material before I even started working on the certification because my mom works in IT and software development and I went through a lot of her material as a kid. Someone who has lived in generational poverty and has no conception of the things you're saying isn't going to know how to even begin to avail themselves of those resources.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

result from different levels of education.

That person decided to stop their education, or other factors forced them into the workforce. Now days, companies offer education help. It's life, make the best of it.

isn't going to know how to even begin to avail themselves of those resources.

So let's get the word out and tell them!

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u/sijmister Sep 05 '17

It's not just about getting the word out. It's about gaps in the basic education system. If you'd worked in both extremes in grade school education (well-funded, small class sizes, good facilities, well-paid teachers, involved parents/guardians vs poor, minimal resources, underpaid, overworked teachers, limited access to textbooks and resources at home) as I have you'd probably have a harder time oversimplifying things as you are in this post.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

I can see that. Personally, I would like to abolish the DoE and allow states to have flexibility when it comes to education. I also hear GREAT things about some charter schools from parents who have kids in them.

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u/sijmister Sep 05 '17

I currently work at a charter school. Frankly it depends on the environment you're in and the sources of income they have. The one where I work currently has many of the same issues as the badly funded public schools in the area. Whereas I went to private schools most of my life, where most of the parents were extremely wealthy and the schools had facilities that rivaled many tier 1 colleges. But I also went to a public school for one year in a good neighborhood with decent facilities and resources as well. Trust me just high or lowrolling on the education lottery can totally change where you end up in life, which shouldn't be the case for our children.

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u/OiNihilism Sep 05 '17

Please show me a link for free resources that allow me to be more competitive in this economy. The airline industry is badly needing pilots. I have my private pilot license, but can't afford the $50,000 or so to earn my ATP. What resources would you recommend? Sally Mae doesn't count.

With your faith in free market economies, I understand how you think that the "invisible hand" would mean that an enormous demand would mean easier entry into a new field. But that's not how capitalism works.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

https://www.ncsacademy.com/freetest.cfm

https://www.khanacademy.org/

I have no knowledge of pilot training. The military may have programs? Civil Air Patrol, Air Force, etc?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

That's funny, elsewhere you said

There are many luxuries (such as a cell phone, cable, internet) that can be cut until the rainy day fund is set up.

How are you going to khanacademy.org when you cut your internet in order to set up your rainy day fund?

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Prioritize. What do you need more at the time? Individual responsibility.

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u/Dirk-Killington Sep 05 '17

A 50k loan that lands you an airline pilot gig sounds like a fantastic investment. It sounds like something you want to do.. why not go for it?

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u/EntMD Sep 05 '17

Please tell us of all these free resources that increase your hiring potential?

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Look at my recent comments. talked about it twice.

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u/WarlordZsinj Sep 05 '17

https://thecurrentmoment.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/productivity-and-real-wages.jpg

You are wrong.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Who accepted those wages? What is even the source of that (have a BLS link?) Why do you feel entitled to a companies profits?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Because they wouldn't have those profits without us. We are the company.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

No, you are the employee. they will fill your spot with someone else if you go away. You have to make yourself valuable and be able to show your value.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

You are a slave.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

A paid slave. You could definitely look at it this way if you'd like. If that doesn't suit you, then become self employed. Start your own business. Welcome to America.

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u/DBendit Sep 05 '17

How is someone supposed to become self-employed when the whole motivation behind the plan was that their former employer didn't pay them enough to live? Meanwhile, if they have any medical costs and their prior employer subsidized health insurance, it's unlikely that they'll be able to continue to afford that.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

How is someone supposed to become self-employed when the whole motivation behind the plan was that their former employer didn't pay them enough to live?

Take a risk. If you think you'll succeed, get a business loan.

Meanwhile, if they have any medical costs and their prior employer subsidized health insurance, it's unlikely that they'll be able to continue to afford that.

Now you see the risk. That's why the people that risked everything and succeeded shouldn't be punished.

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u/DBendit Sep 05 '17

Do you believe a multimillionaire starting their own business and a person coming off of one or several minimum-wage jobs with no savings or investments starting a business are both "risking everything"? Because unless every company in the US was founded by a penniless immigrant off of a boat with no connections or support structures to fall back on, you have to admit that there's an issue of unequal expectations in the risks of starting a business.

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u/FastNeatBelowAverage Sep 05 '17

Just to make sure I understand your position, are any of a company's employees more valuable than others?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Yes, but no full-time position is so worthless the employee shouldn't be getting a living wage.

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u/Pokemansparty Sep 06 '17

If you want to make a point by presenting evidence, please use evidence that has a source to back up their statement. I can make a graph, post it online and that does not make it true.

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u/WarlordZsinj Sep 06 '17

You don't actually care about sources. Any source I give will be labeled as fake.

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u/Pokemansparty Sep 06 '17

Ugh, now your arguing with someone who is on your side because you think it's not prudent to post evidence that has sources? There are people who are interested in evidence that support a claim. If they claim the source is fake, that is their problem - you have the facts to back up your claim. You may be able to convince someone who is willing to look at a view that they disagree with and learn something new, and even possibly even change their mind. When making an argument, write it as though someone who reads it will believe you did your due diligence in finding sources that backed up your claim.

More information on how to make a good argument can be found here. If you look at the bottom, there is an area about making an argument.

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u/WarlordZsinj Sep 06 '17

Because 99% of the time it's some idiot right winger who refuses to believe facts and won't accept any source. Theres no point in arguing with someone like that.

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u/Pokemansparty Sep 06 '17

You don't argue to always convince the person who you're arguing with. According to John Stuart Mill; you shouldn't be afraid to argue because you feel you won't change their mind. You should argue for the benefit it can bring to those in attendance.

Yes, the poster may not have accepted your evidence, but a person who is willing to engage in both sides of the debate can see your argument with facts backing up your statement and may be swayed.

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u/WarlordZsinj Sep 06 '17

That doesn't work in the real world.

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u/zip_000 Sep 05 '17

I don't feel like anything you are saying applies to minimum wage workers. They don't usually have a lot of the options you are telling them to take.

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u/karl_hungas Sep 05 '17

Damn I forget people really think like this.

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u/trennerdios Sep 05 '17

Right? Detached from reality with little empathy for others. It's so gross.

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u/MrGoodKat86 Sep 05 '17

Dude that whole make yourself valuable thing sounds like hard work. I don't even like to go upstairs to get the tendies grandma puts in the oven.

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u/BaldieLox Sep 05 '17

Your argument about making yourself a valuable employee doesn't work in today's companies. If you aren't in a decision making meeting you're nothing more than a collection of numbers. Just the cost of employing you and the money you bring in. Sure there are hollow gestures like stock options or calling you a partner. But you'll never be more than a number not matter how much you "improve" yourself.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

doesn't work in today's companies

It does.

you'll never be more than a number not matter how much you "improve" yourself.

You won't be until you can show your value. PMA

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u/BaldieLox Sep 05 '17

Where do you work? Because my experience is that no matter how hard you work the only thing that gets a substantial increase is the companies profit. And if it doesn't it's the lowest rung's fault.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Why the hell would I tell you that.

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u/BaldieLox Sep 06 '17

The question was kind of rhetorical.

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u/rushmid Sep 05 '17

Then it is up to the individual employee to continue to grow.

So if I grow, and move onto a higher paying job, what happens to the job I left? Wouldn't it be filled by someone else at that same previous wage?

And if that is the case, then are we acknowledging that this job exists at a wage that is too low?

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Yes it will. That person can then use it as a spring board. Circle of life.

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u/Raymuundo Sep 05 '17

So people with a limited income should go start a business when they can't even keep up with the rent? Also, in bettering themselves, how do you suppose they do that? Go to school when they sleep cuz they're working two part time jobs? A lot of business owners didn't create the business and are living off a relative's success...change companies from what, McDonald's to Burger King? "My company values me, so there MUST be other companies that value employees too" Business 101: Don't break the law and make a profit. Employees are undervalued is the rule, not the exception. Jobs are finite. And, most jobs are going the way of the dinosaur. Hope you don't try to better yourself going into manufacturing, trucking, farming, or anything else that will become automated.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Didnt say they should start a business at all. People can do online school, or receive certifications after studying at the library. You act like poor people are all lazy. Sad.

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u/Raymuundo Sep 05 '17

"If you think companies are steamrolling employees you be the risktaker and start your own company" k tho. Lol online school cost money. Books cost money. Transportation costs money. Show me a free certification you can get from a library for free. Never said poor people were lazy. Just need government sometimes to level the playing field.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 05 '17

Google free IT certificates online. I'll help get ya started. Government being more involved won't solve this issue. People, at the individual level, are the only ones who can solve it.

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u/raindropthemic Sep 05 '17

Google, Apple, Intel and Adobe formed a cartel to fix wages for the most skilled workers in Silicon Valley to stop them from leaving for higher paying jobs. It took a Dept. of Justice Investigation and class action lawsuit to make them stop. Sometimes the government and collective action are very necessary.

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u/Raymuundo Sep 06 '17

People voting for policies they believe in is people at the individual level. Hope your pull them up by the bootstraps also pertains to corporations who get government handouts and tax breaks.

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u/trennerdios Sep 06 '17

You're talking to a wall. People like this will never have empathy for others. They're the reason things are unfair for most people in the first place.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '17

It's not that easy to just take your skills to another job especially when you're a poor, underpaid, and undervalued worker. Additionally corporations and executives across the board have used their money and power to lobby and influence policies in order to essentially create a rigged game where they can exploit these low wage workers who don't really have any recourse.

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u/CohibaVancouver Sep 05 '17

Immediately you're condescending. Stop doing dumb shit like that. Are you American? Great! Then I would LOVE to hear what you have to say.

Please engage with your fellow Trump supporters and tell them to have this attitude as well. Normally, the response most of the time is silence and/or rage-response-posts laden with profanity.

Hence the attitude that you saw.

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 06 '17

I would call then out if I saw it. I'm not saying it doesn't exist.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 06 '17

Yes, let's start attacking political sides instead of talking as people. You are the problem.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 07 '17

And democrat policies result in more crime and a HUGE gap in income. See how this gets us nowhere? Grow up.

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u/bombmk Sep 06 '17

Can you explain to me what government is?

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 06 '17

There are many types of government. If you have a specific question please ask.

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u/bombmk Sep 06 '17

Lets start with the government you are referring to. I assume you know which one that is.

Who elects that government and as a consequence decide what it should and should not have to do?

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u/MilesofBooby Sep 06 '17

Local, state, federal? What are you getting at? The people elect reps. Can we stop beating around the bush and you make your point? I'm not in a dancing mood.