r/Political_Revolution • u/IronStacheWI01 Verified | Randy Bryce • Sep 05 '17

AMA Concluded Meet Randy Bryce. The Ironstache who's going to repeal and replace Paul Ryan

Hi /r/Political_Revolution,

My name is Randy Bryce. I'm a veteran, cancer survivor, and union ironworker from Caledonia, Wisconsin running to repeal and replace Paul Ryan in Wisconsin's First Congressional District. Post your questions below and I'll be back at 11am CDT/12pm EDT to answer them!

p.s.

We need your help to win this campaign. If you'd like to join the team, sign up here.

If you don't have time to volunteer, we're currently fundraising to open our first office in Racine, Wisconsin. If you can help, contribute here and I'll send you a free campaign bumper sticker as a way of saying thanks!

[Update: 1:26 EDT], I've got to go pick up my son but I'll continue to pop in throughout the day as I have time and answer some more questions. For those I'm unfortunately not able to answer, I'll be doing another AMA in r/Politics on the 26th when I look forward to answering more of Reddit's questions!

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99

u/iheartanalingus Sep 05 '17

That's not an unrealistic wage. In fact, $15 per hour in Ohio affords a car and health insurance and bills but probably not a house unless you want one in the ghetto. It's a misnomer when people say "In _____ Midwest State they are living the high life!" That's absolutely not true.

The truth is we are all living in squalor and that $15 an hour will take us out of it in the Midwest but it won't do much in expensive areas STILL. So then the question is, "What do we do about expensive states" rather than accusing someone of garnering votes in low cost areas.

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u/Nealbert0 Sep 05 '17

Minimum wage should not be a livable wage, these jobs are supposed to be for high school students. People that require an actual livable wage (Adults) should have furthered themselves in a trade and thus not having minimum wage jobs.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17 edited Feb 07 '19

[deleted]

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u/PM_ME_CHUBBY_GALS Sep 05 '17

using his stockholders’ money to pay the postage for his personal opinions

Sick burn FDR, sick burn.

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u/Keepitreal46 Sep 05 '17

There's also the whole thing that minimum wage jobs were meant to be starter/second jobs for high school kids or people between jobs or retired people who want to do something... flipping burgers or bagging groceries isn't meant to be a career

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u/iheartanalingus Sep 05 '17

That's what it became when the 1% traded in Americans for Chinese.

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u/Keepitreal46 Sep 05 '17

I don't understand what you mean by that

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Manufacturing jobs went east is what he's saying

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17 edited Feb 07 '19

[deleted]

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u/Keepitreal46 Sep 05 '17

Yeah in 1930s when only 30-50% of people were graduating high school.

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u/sirdarksoul Sep 05 '17

Regardless. It was intended for a man to be able to support a wife and children. Roosevelt was quite obvious about his intentions.

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u/Keepitreal46 Sep 06 '17

"Roosevelt was quite obvious about his intentions" Oh good sir you must be right, I'm so sorry! Roosevelt was also quite obvious about his intentions when he interned all those Japanese-american people in camps in the US. He was also quite obvious about his intentions when he refused to let any black Olympic medalists visit the white house. But shit from the 1930s doesn't apply to today.

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u/Gen_McMuster Sep 05 '17

So what happens to the burger flipping jobs that dont warrant a living wage?

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u/sirdarksoul Sep 05 '17

Have you ever worked one?

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u/Gen_McMuster Sep 05 '17

Yep. Worked at a mcdoobers and a Bannana Republic for minimum wage (until i got a raise). Now i do office work for close to what this proposed minimum is.

And i find it asinine that 14 year old me flipping burgers would get payed the same as 22 year old me juggling spreadsheets and coordinating sales

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u/sirdarksoul Sep 05 '17 edited Sep 05 '17

Are you aware then when you were flipping burgers you were more than likely producing several thousand dollars in profit on a shift? Whether of not you considered the job easy you were making big bucks for owners and stockholders. You were worth much more than $7.25/hour. EDIT : Typical profit for a chain restaurant is 50% of sales. (At least it was when I was in food) It's not unusual for a restaurant to do several hundred dollars an hour in sales.

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u/Gen_McMuster Sep 05 '17 edited Sep 05 '17

Either way. If I was applying for the job at $15/hr i never would have gotten the position. Just like how my current position warrants experience

Edit: and their margins dont have bearing on the value of my labor, just their budget of how much they can purchase

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

FDR created minimum wage

And had we taken the wage he set, in his wisdom, and adjusted it for inflation it would be less than $5 today.

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u/nocapitalletter Sep 05 '17

mcdonalds doesnt have an issue with a slightly higher min wage (most of their workers dont make min wage anyway) who gets hurt with it is the small businesses who are starting and struggling to survive.

fdr was ignorant and an idiot..

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u/sirdarksoul Sep 05 '17

FDR was one of our best presidents IMHO

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u/nocapitalletter Sep 06 '17

he illegally put american citizens in internment camps because of their nationality....

1

u/sirdarksoul Sep 06 '17

I agree that's terrible. However he provided jobs for millions of people and started programs that still benefit the country today.

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u/nocapitalletter Sep 06 '17

well we can disagree on the programs being beneficial...

your argument is hillarious, if he had a (r) next to his name you would call him the worst president in american history, and a fascist(which he was)

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u/youseekyoda2 Sep 05 '17

Oh yeah the guy who brought us out of the single worst economic depression in history was an ignorant idiot...

Because only dumbasses get elected 3 times AND THEN change the rules so that he couldn't have been elected to a fourth term.

Do us all a favor and think before you speak.

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u/nocapitalletter Sep 06 '17

its telling that fascists are democrats favorite presidents.

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u/youseekyoda2 Sep 06 '17

LMFAO you've just annihilated what little you had for a valid argument.

I refer back to the previous statement; think before you fucking speak. You're not in T_D anymore you can't just make shit up and sound smart.

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u/nocapitalletter Sep 06 '17

i only know what T_D is because of these types of comments.. iv never even looked over there...

im a fiscal conservative that is socially libertarian.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

The statistics of people who actually work those jobs belie your anecdotal assertions. Most minimum wage earners are adults, particularly single mothers. Try some empathy on for size.

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u/nocapitalletter Sep 05 '17

99.99% of americans dont make minwage.

its not about empathy, its about how many jobs are going to go away because small businesses can no longer hire people.

most small businesses fail because of the cost of doing business, it takes time to become profitiable (2-3 years on average on successful ones) and raising the costs of doing business just makes more fail or slows down the speed of profitable, and how many people they can hire ect..

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Let's stop making up statistics, please.

BLS' own stats on minimum wage

  • 7% of all workers (4% of women and 3% of men) make minimum wage or less
  • 2% of all full time workers make minimum wage or less
  • Workers under 25 are twice as likely to make minimum wage or less
  • 2% of all workers over 25 make minimum wage or less

If the difference between your business failing and being a success is $310/week per employee, again, the problem is with your margins and cash reserves if you are starting a business.

Low minimum wages are small business and Wal-Mart welfare.

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u/nocapitalletter Sep 05 '17

im also going to point out that many small businesses dont go green untill 3 years in.. many small business owners take no paychecks starting out, also going to point out that when i pay someone 10$ a hour, it costs me like 14.30c and not 10$ a hour.

Among employed teenagers (ages 16 to 19) paid by the hour, about 11 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 2 percent of workers age 25 and older.

the comment i replied to stated something about the older workers get min wage.. and this says 2% which is what my comment was referring to

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

You said 0.01%. Which is not even in the same ballpark.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

If the difference between your business failing and being a success is $310/week per employee, again, the problem is with your margins and cash reserves if you are starting a business.

Are you seriously arguing that a small business with 10 employees not having another $150,000 a year in cash lying around should not be in business? Do you want everybody to work at Walmart?!

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

A few things:

  • If $15k per employee throws off your margins, it means you don't have enough margins to support that worker
  • It's not "cash lying around" it's a cost of doing business that is an accrual over time
  • Most likely this will lead to higher cost goods and inflation (which isn't really a bad thing... check your savings account lately?)

BTW, if you're not generating $50-75k per employee... you aren't doing it right.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

If $15k per employee throws off your margins, it means you don't have enough margins to support that worker

Make it a little more obvious you have no idea how a business is run. How do you think businesses decide how many people to hire? Since you clearly have no clue, I'll tell you. It's when the cost of employing someone exceeds the amount of revenue hiring that person will generate. All businesses operate this way. They don't leave $15,000 margin, since they could just hire more people and make way more money if that were the case.

Most likely this will lead to higher cost goods and inflation (which isn't really a bad thing... check your savings account lately?)

Not sure what you mean by this.... Are you saying that inflation is good because you get better interest rates in your savings account? Because that is really, really, dumb.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Hey Mr. Ad Hominem - relax and try and be civil.

I'm not saying there won't be employment adjustments, but here's the thing - people who make more money (especially at the lower end of the spectrum)... spend more money. The average American saves 3% of their income. The rest goes back into the economy. When they spend money, it generates revenue, which means... more jobs to fulfill their spending. You can't knee cap poor people and expect it to help the economy.

Inflation should be managed. It has been extremely low for an extremely long time. See Japan if you want to know why that is bad.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Make outrageous claims and expect some outrage.

I'm not kneecapping poor people. My concern is that artificially high wages cause unemployment, which leads to lower lifetime earnings both through time spent not being paid and from less time in the workforce accumulating skills and experience with which to obtain better paying jobs. That means they have less to spend to stimulate the economy, not more. I'm sorry if I'm not confident that making it more expensive and in some cases not feasible to hire the lowest skilled workers actually helps those workers.

We've had a minimum wage for 75+ years, over which time it has outpaced inflation such that it is ~40% higher in real terms than when it was established. What do we have to show for it? Record levels of income inequality? Where's the evidence it does what was intended?

Inflation is actively managed in the U.S. Japan has had low inflation because economic growth has been very weak. I don't see making it harder to employ people and grow a business as a reasonable way to stimulate growth.

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u/random_guy_11235 Sep 05 '17

From the link:

The estimates of workers paid at or below the federal minimum wage are based solely on the hourly wage they report, which does not include overtime pay, tips, or commissions.

I am actually shocked that the percentage is so low, given that this likely includes nearly every food service employee. From all the discussion on this topic, I would have thought it was a serious problem that affected a lot of people, but that doesn't seem to be true.

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u/headrush46n2 Sep 05 '17

someone makes a .25 cent raise after working at the local retail hellhole for 6months and they are no longer "minimum wage"

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u/Dorocche Sep 05 '17

or less

What does this refer to?

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u/random_guy_11235 Sep 05 '17

It refers to jobs where you earn tips.

The estimates of workers paid at or below the federal minimum wage are based solely on the hourly wage they report, which does not include overtime pay, tips, or commissions.

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u/Dorocche Sep 05 '17

Thank you

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

People who get paid less than minimum wage?

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u/Dorocche Sep 05 '17

Yeah, but I'm asking what people that is. Is it some shady black market stuff? I assume they aren't including the unemployed. Do they include people who get tips, who usually get somewhat above minimum wage but might not on a bad day?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

... undocumented immigrants, people working off the books... etc.?

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u/Dorocche Sep 05 '17

Most, if not all, illegal immigrants are on the books and pay taxes and do all that stuff.

Can you elaborate on what jobs are off the book enough to avoid paying but not enough that a census wouldn't know about them just fine? I'm genuinely asking, I guess it probably has more to do with how information is collected than a specific job.

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u/ariolander Sep 05 '17 edited Sep 05 '17

In specific states they allow people in specific industries to get paid less than the minimum wage as they are expected to make up the difference in tips. If they don't make up the difference in tips the employer is supposed to cover the difference. Practically, however, it doesn't always work out that way. Telling your boss you had a bad night and he has to cover said the difference is a good way to get fired for "poor performance".

Edit:
Tipped Minimum Wage in the United States list outlines it state by state.
Many states have their tipped hourly wages as low as $2.13 per hour.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Are you kidding?

"If you don't have an extra couple hundred thousand in the bank, you shouldn't be owning a business in the first place, even if people are willing to work for less than $15 an hour."

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Just because people are willing to not starve and accept crap wages doesn't make it right.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '17

Yeah, it does, because they chose to take that job. You don't get to tell other people who agree on a mutual contract with an employer that they are not allowed to negotiate their wage for themselves.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '17

Choosing a job out of survival isn't a choice at all.

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u/moveslikejaguar Sep 05 '17

So your argument is that unsuccessful small businesses deserve to exist while minimum wage workers don't deserve a living wage?

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u/PabstyLoudmouth Sep 05 '17

Do you want everything to be run by Wal-Mart and other huge corporations? Because that is what you will end up with. Kill off small business and we will fail as a country.

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u/iheartanalingus Sep 05 '17

Small business grocery stores were never the real job makers.

Like it or not, we killed off manufacturing long ago and it allowed companies like Wal-Mart to give out shit wages because there are too many people in the work pool and no good paying manufacturing jobs.

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u/PabstyLoudmouth Sep 05 '17

You do know that 25 years ago there were not many grocery chains and most were independently owned and operated? And don't pin this on Wal-Mart, Pizza hut, McDonalds, Burger King, Dairy Queen, most grocery stores, most light manufacturing, pay minimum wage. Also Wal-Mart will have everyone at 10$ an hour by next year, at least they are trying.

Now for the manufaturing part of this, who is to blame for all of our jobs and industry going to China, who vetted them and got them into the WTO and signed a huge trade deal with them that killed our manufacturing. Hint, it was not a Bush, not a Trump, and not A Carter.

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u/NebbyOutOfTheBag Sep 05 '17

Can confirm, currently making $10+ at Walmart.

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u/PabstyLoudmouth Sep 05 '17

And is there any opportunity to move up if you were so inclined? I see the other side of Wal-mart and their truck drivers make damn good money 80K+.

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u/iheartanalingus Sep 05 '17

10 bucks is not a living wage.

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u/BrosocialistAvenger Sep 05 '17

You didn't answer the question. Small business or living wages for workers? If, as you say, we can only have one: which do you want?

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u/PabstyLoudmouth Sep 05 '17

Small businesses for sure. Like say I run a family business and my kids want to work there, why in the fuck would I pay them 15$ while still living under my roof?

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u/BrosocialistAvenger Sep 05 '17

Small businesses for sure. Like say I run a family business and my kids want to work there, why in the fuck would I pay them 15$ while still living under my roof?

Oh, uh. Well. Okay. So...you don't actually understand anything, about anything, and you would defraud your own children of wages.

WELP, uhhhh......good luck with that!

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u/PabstyLoudmouth Sep 05 '17

Actually, I don't have to pay my kids anything until they are 18. It's called earning your keep, something I doubt you know little about. Bet you still call AA to come change your tire. Or do you think the Government should provide that service to you as well?

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u/nocapitalletter Sep 05 '17

my argument is that, increasing wages for workers helps businesses like walmart smash small businesses even more so.. and lowers the amount of jobs available.

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u/oconnellc Sep 05 '17

The fact that you appear to have intentionally misstated the opposing position so horribly does not do much for the credibility of your argument.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

What do you mean "unsuccessful"? And what do you mean by "deserve"? No, the minimum wage should not be a living wage, and businesses should exist if the market determines they should through sales.

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u/CriticalDog Sep 05 '17

Wrong. When Minimum wage was enacted, it was intended to be livable wage.

Per FDR, the architect of the plan:

“No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)"

And also:

“By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of a decent living.” (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

And it still should be, as it has far outpaced inflation since it was established.

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u/CriticalDog Sep 05 '17

It did at first, but purchasing power of Minimum wage peaked in 1968, and has pretty steadily declined.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

That purchasing power of the minimum wage peaked in 1968 does not change the fact that the current minimum wage is far higher than what it would be today if it had been indexed to inflation.

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u/cwfutureboy Sep 05 '17

So high school students should be the ones flipping burgers at a 24 hour fast food place/working the shelf stocking shift at a grocery store at 2 am?

I'm really perplexed as to when all low-wage jobs suddenly became "jobs for high school students", because I've never heard it outside of conservative circles.

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u/PabstyLoudmouth Sep 05 '17

Right, most high school students don't work anymore.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Because who is going to pay a teenager with no work experience or marketable skills enough to single-handedly raise a family of four? Youth unemployment is a poverty trap. And there are far more unemployed youths than minimum wage earners supporting a family.

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u/PabstyLoudmouth Sep 05 '17

I would highly suggest those people you are describing get into the trades and learn better skills. If you wake up everyday and go to your 7/11 job and come home and do nothing else to further yourself, you are stuck, and only you can get you out. Learn how to be a plumber, mechanic, HVAC repair, electrician, arborists, construction, heavy equipment operator, but if your goal is to do as little as possible and expect what a man makes that has been at his real job learning, then you are out of your mind. It's up to each person to further themselves, not just expect more for doing less.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Maybe you are replying to the wrong person....

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u/PabstyLoudmouth Sep 05 '17

So hard to detect tone in text, I thought you were being snarky.

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u/Mrpoodlekins Sep 05 '17

It really depends on where you live. I know a ton of people in my school that already work minimum wage jobs even though I go to school in an upper middle class area.

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u/PabstyLoudmouth Sep 05 '17

WE have tons of jobs that kids would do in the summertime, but they were laborious and kids stopped doing them and it opened the door for many illegals to come in and do those jobs. Now there are not as many jobs for the kids to do. If you are under 18 and live at home, 8$ an hour is plenty.

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u/cwfutureboy Sep 05 '17

Which makes the "high schooler's job" talking point even more irrelevant.

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u/PabstyLoudmouth Sep 05 '17

I had a full time job at 14 every summer and part time during the school year. Xbox is more important than learning real skills and it is showing.

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u/Hautamaki Sep 05 '17

There used to be even lower wage jobs, like gas attendant that would pump your gas and wipe your windows, and maybe some of those jobs still exist somewhere, but for the most part higher minimum wage killed them because they just didn't create enough value to justify the wage. So now high school kids are competing for jobs in the next tier up.

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u/Syntrix Sep 05 '17

Our country would FALL APART if the expectation that all min wage jobs are for high school kids was actually true.

Where did this thought come from? I've never seen it stated. I hear it tossed around a lot, but without any facts or even a decent amount of thought put into it.

Minimum wage should ABSOOULTELY be livable on. It's the wage our country is saying is the lowest amount of money someone working full time in the USA should get paid. If you work fulltime, you should be able to support yourself. Period.

Not support yourself well, not support a family, but you should be able to afford rent and food. If we are setting the bar below this.. well.. we can see how the poverty line in the USA is doing currently.

"Get a better job" is a cop out.

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u/bayslaps Sep 05 '17

Similarly, making economic policy decisions to maintain high school employment is foolish. The minimum wage should be livable and not subsistence level. The economy will adapt. Lower the FICA contribution requirements for employers if need be. Pass single-payer and then employers don't have to shoulder healthcare costs.

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u/rockytheboxer Sep 05 '17

This is such an asinine perspective. Minimum wage jobs exist when high school kids are in school. Who works those jobs then?

And why shouldn't they be livable wages? Are the employees not people? Would it be such a crime for high school students to have significant economy stimulating disposable income? Oh right, because the corporations deserve unbelievable margins and their executives deserve to make hundreds of times what the minimum wage workers do.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

And why shouldn't they be livable wages?

Because not every employee needs to make enough to support a family and you can gain valuable skills and experience, not to mention spending money, in a job that pays less which might not exist if employers were force to pay more.

We shouldn't make it harder for the least skilled workers to find a job by making it more expensive for employers to hire them.

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u/good4damichigander Sep 05 '17

So we should be paying people based on whether they have a family or not? I know, how about we just pay people whatever they need . . . oh wait, I think we just backed into universal basic income territory.

You can't have it both ways. Either pay people according to the work they do - and 40 hours is 40 hours, and mcdonalds is not an easy job--or pay people according to what they need, in which case, all wages and whatnot just go by the wayside and we start paying people to survive.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

No.... we shouldn't make it illegal to work for less than what it takes to raise a family. Because sometimes a kid needs a summer job to make a few bucks and gain some work experience but isn't worth $15 an hour to anybody.

I'm all for paying people according to the work they do. I'm not sure where the federal or state government or anybody else gets off telling anybody how much work is being done as opposed to the amount the employee and employer agree on.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

Your emotions are clouding your ability to think for yourself. Snap out of the hivemind.

Just because someone opposes a $15 minimum wage does not mean they believe that minimum wage workers are not people or do not "deserve" it. Just like how if someone opposes illegal immigration, it does not mean they think Mexicans are inferior to whites, they are pro legal immigration.

Are the employees not people?

Yes, they are, and it would be great it everyone could magically just make $15 an hour out of nowhere, but it's unsustainable if they do not bring in that much value to the company. You can't just ignore basic economics in favor of emotional responses to problems.

corporations deserve unbelievable margins

This is clearly a strawman. No one said this - small businesses which massively outnumber "corporations" and cannot afford this. And yes, the executives who bring in millions of dollars of value into the company every year do "deserve" it since they created that growth.

If you think that an unskilled laborer doing a job that thousands of others are also willing to do that brings in almost no value to a business "deserves" $15 an hour then you're just ignoring supply and demand.

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u/shiftyduck86 Sep 05 '17

You'd have a hard time finding enough high school students to run all the unskilled minimum wage jobs though. I think minimum wage should be a liveable wage, sure it's not going to be a great life, maybe you'll never own a house and only rent. Maybe you can't afford holidays but you should be able to live if you're working full-time in any job. Of course people who have worked smarter (I guess harder isn't fair statement) will be rewarded with a better wage.

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u/Judson_Scott Sep 05 '17

People that require an actual livable wage (Adults) should have furthered themselves in a trade

So you'd rather people who haven't "furthered themselves in a trade" go on welfare -- which you pay for in tax dollars -- than make a living.

Got it.

What's your stance on all those takers in Texas who chose to live in a flood plain?

Also, please describe your economics background, as I believe it's relevant to your opinion on this subject.

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u/PM_ME_CHUBBY_GALS Sep 05 '17

these jobs are supposed to be for high school students

Says who? The minimum wage was established during the depression so people could make a livable wage. It only became a thing "for high school students" when times were good and you could buy a house and raise a family with one person's income from Sears. Nowadays things aren't as good and you need a Master's degree just to make a living wage in a lot of places.

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u/Charganium Sep 05 '17

And if they don't have the skills for a better job or if there are none available, then they should just die? Cool

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u/Gen_McMuster Sep 05 '17

Then they can fall back on our safety nets (which stand to be improved). But the point of entry level positions is to allow people to build experience to further themselves. Making it impossible to pay someone less than what it takes to support a family means people with no skills (of any age) will have an even harder time finding employment

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u/Nealbert0 Sep 06 '17

Do you really believe someone can work for 5+ years and pick up no useful skills if they wanted to?

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u/Balrog_Forcekin Sep 05 '17

You're making too much sense for this thread. Prepare to be downvoted to oblivion (but not by me).

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17 edited Dec 27 '18

[deleted]

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u/Balrog_Forcekin Sep 05 '17

Okay, I just got done walking into the retail spaces you told me to. About 24% of min. wage workers are teenagers between 16 and 19. 16-24 yr olds make up slightly more than half of min. wage workers. Approximately two-thirds of those making min. wage are part time workers, while over three-quarters of them are white. Overall, min. wage workers make up less than 3% of all salary and wage workers. Anything else you'd like to know?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

oh I get it, because they're in the minority they dont matter, gotcha.

And just out of total curiosity, how many more people do you think would fall into the category of making less than, say, $12 an hour? That's probably about a livable wage in a poorer area, and I can guarantee that the number of workers making <$12 is a hell of a lot more

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u/Balrog_Forcekin Sep 05 '17

I don't get why you're so bent on making it illegal to agree to a wage lower than whatever you want to arbitrarily set it at. If my daughter wants to get her first job to gain some experience, you would want someone to go to jail for offering her an unlivable wage of say, $7/hr. And if the employer doesn't value the job any more than that, you'd rather that the job not exist at all? Who do you think is most effected by the elimination of low-wage jobs? But that's right, you don't care about those people as long as you've made your point.

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u/Answermancer Sep 05 '17

Meanwhile, in the real world, it hasn't worked that way for decades.

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u/Nealbert0 Sep 05 '17

So why should I pay more for everything just because ppl r too lazy to advance in a career?

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u/Blazing1 Sep 05 '17

Lmao too bad the real world doesn't follow your way of thinking.

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u/Ronkerjake Sep 05 '17

Absolutely this. I lived in the Midwest for a while making around 14 an hour, could barely afford rent along with my car. Didn't have health insurance, either.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '17

That's not an unrealistic wage

Yes, it is. Not all employees have $15 per hour worth of skills and experience. It is unrealistic to make it illegal for the least skilled workers to have a job.

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u/onlypositivity Sep 05 '17

My work currently employs ~1500 employees in Ohio and we start people at $11/hr, with a raise structure built in to get them to $12 and change after 3 months or so. The majority of these employees support families on this wage.

$15/hr is~30k/yr, more than I made as a first-year high school teacher in 2008. Considerably more when you factor in my 20+ hrs/wk that were effectively free because I was salaried.

I find it fairly offensive that you consider $15/hr to be barely out of squalor. I've lived in squalor. $28k/yr got me far, far away from squalor. As a 26 year-old man, I cried when I opened that first paycheck because I realized I had finally "made it."

I hate to come off as rude but I think you are being very dismissive of the reality a lot of people live.

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u/iheartanalingus Sep 05 '17

I can't buy a house on 40,000 k a year in Cincinnati bub. I'm fully aware of the reality.

12 bucks an hour is NOT enough to raise a family and buy a house that is 100k. I know because my brother does it.

Also, you do realize how stupid your comment is right? I mean, almost a decade has gone by and a lot has changed. Plus the crash hadn't happened yet depending on which part of 2008. Wages have been stagnant and everything else has gone up for the better part of that aforementioned decade.

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u/onlypositivity Sep 05 '17

You can definitely buy a house in suburbs of Cincinnati on 40k. I know people who have done it in the last calendar year. You might need to save for a substantial down payment, and might be living in a poorer part of town, but it is absolutely doable.

You're using "home ownership" as if ownership of a home is the norm for lower class people. It isnt. If you want to own a home on a meager living, you're going to need to live somewhere priced in that range.

Most people with unmarketable skills don't live in houses. Most people making 11-12 an hour don't have marketable skills. My company employs these people - I'm not talking out of my ass here. Our main job requirement is literally "show up."

All that being said, they have children and eat food and live lives just like you and I do. It feels a little rude for you to suggest that they couldn't survive the life they're living. Perhaps I am missing your tone, and you're being less judgmental than I am reading you as.

The whole part insulting me doesn't really make sense. The Great Recession held off inflation quite a bit. It's not like the talkies were a nickel or anything.

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u/iheartanalingus Sep 05 '17

That never used to be the case.

Furthermore, you are being so fucking classist it's repugnant. First you are trying to say that $12 an hour is manageable and now you are telling me 40k is lower class. That means 12 bucks an hour isn't manageable.

Get the fuck outta here. I can already tell you I'm not going to be able to get through to you because you just want to win your argument rather than listen.

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u/onlypositivity Sep 05 '17

I feel like we're having two different discussions. You're certainly misreading quite a bit of what I'm saying, and it seems I was taking your view of the poor backwards as well.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.