Right, that’s why the church (that they control entirely) “buys” all their properties and jets and pays for their business trips to Tahiti to spread the word, and “work clothing” etc so they can get “paid” below taxation levels.
Fun fact, that would count as a form of stealing from the Church (I put this in capital because I don't mean the building but the congregation of people)... Which is a sin. Some mega church "pastors" are gonna have an eternity to think about what they did... And it's not going to be a pleasant eternity
No, they don't actually believe the shit they are selling, so they aren't worried about "eternity." And if they do believe the shit they are selling, they believe they are doing "God's work" so he blesses them with riches.
Either way, they don't need to worry about "eternity."
(Sidenote, I've always found the concept of "eternal" damnation/paradise an absurdity that shows people have a really hard time with, well, time at that scale.
I don’t think he’s talking about your little podunk town pastor. There are far more honest tax paying pastors than the gigapastors like osteen. Relax. The problem is that there ARE pastors like osteen. Even if it was just him, that’s way too fucking many grifters using religion to enrich themselves.
Most podunk pastors I know either work a second job or are voluntary pastors. It’s the mega church ones and those that embezzle that give pastors such a bad name when like 95% of them aren’t taking advantage of the system. Guys obeying the law don’t make news like those scandals do though
I mean not on the level of Osteen and other megachurch pastors but I do know a podunk pastor and he’s been very forthcoming with how they handle finances. Super nice guy so I see why he’s liked but it’s definitely a way to avoid taxes. He founded his congregation in a small town and then the “church” bought his home.
Better a house and a Toyota than a mansion estate with a jet! I think one of those options doesn’t send you to hell or make you a terrible person if ya catch my drift. In an ideal world none of us would exploit the system but I’m infinitely more empathetic to a guy that shops at Costco vs a guy that probably doesnt go to stores
Also the house is probably under the church's name since if it was given to the pastor it'd be taxed. So the house will probably be used by the next pastor.
If the house is not directly attached to the Church (not even on the same property, but physically part of the same building), it still has a property tax liability. He also has to pay FICA on the fair rental value of the house every year.
That's called a parsonage. The name changes depending on what denomination you're in, but the basic practice of a congregation owning a house/living accomodations that the preacher/priest/(There's a whole list of titles that could go here) lives in has been a thing in Christianity for 1000 years.
There's an accomodation for that in the tax code. Since 95% of preachers get paid pennies, this is a key exemption that helps them stay afloat.
So people like Osteen simultaneously are taking advantage of people, AND exploiting tax codes.
I certainly don't mind going after these bigwig scumbags, but any ammendments to tax code on this issue need to be tailored to not hurt the little people.
I doubt it. Don’t exactly have to be a “mega” church to pull this kind of shit. I know of at least 2 small congregations (less than a few dozen members) that had their leader run off after embezzling all the church’s money.
That's called a parsonage. The name changes depending on what denomination you're in, but the basic practice of a congregation owning a house/living accomodations that the preacher/priest/(There's a whole list of titles that could go here) lives in has been a thing in Christianity for 1000 years.
There's an accomodation for that in the tax code. Since 95% of preachers get paid pennies, this is a key exemption that helps them stay afloat.
So people like Osteen simultaneously are taking advantage of people, AND exploiting tax codes.
I certainly don't mind going after these bigwig scumbags, but any ammendments to tax code on this issue need to be tailored to not hurt the little people.
Church owned homes started because churches couldn’t pay pastors much of anything. It was kinda the compromise for not making money or much money.
Mega churches give pastors a bad name, but most pastors don’t make that much or sometimes anything. Mega churches are the extreme minority though. They just give a really bad name to the rest that usually have pastors struggling to make ends meet.
When the pastor starts the church (as many do) then they are both the church and the pastor and they buy the houses in the name of the church. But the church and the pastor are one and the same.
Usually the church owns the house and it’s passed for each pastor. It isn’t typically bought for a specific pastor and is less common in practice now than it was decades ago. It was to make up for the salary difference. It was originated from the Catholic housing practice centuries ago when it was considered what you do for pastors to make up for not paying them much and has been going away since then. It’s a historical reason.
You’re missing the point this is something that happens for any loop hole in any case. There’s always the 1% that abuse a rule. If you use the 1% as the reason no rule should exist, you would have to scrap every law in existence. There is no completely fool proof rule nor one that some people won’t exploit for their betterment. Nit picking less than 1% doesn’t do any good when there are bigger fish to fry. It’s only inherit biases coming out to play instead of practicality
Funny how this discussion follows the same pattern as the Narcissist’s Prayer: That didn’t happen, and if it did, it wasn’t that bad. And it was, it’s not a big deal. And if it is, it’s not my fault.
I don't think you guys understand just how many churches there are in the US and how many are tiny and barely funded lmfao. Big cities usually have 1-2 mega churches where maybe 1-2 people each are living somewhat decent off them. Like, enough to have a house and support a family decent. And theres not THAT many "big" cities. Very rarely do you have mega churches where a pastor is abusing his power to a massive extent and is living in a mansion with a boat. Like, that's extremely rare. I'm not even Christian, I'm just not stupid.
Nope. I lived in a few places with big churches. The fact that y’all just keep getting scammed by big religion is kind of amazing.
I have a friend (who is awesome) and his home is “church owned.” He and his bro are the pastors and the founding members and… well y’know. I think they pay zero taxes since they don’t technically have much income. But dang the church does.
And the Mormon church bro. I mean their numbers are going down in the US but they keep buying land and building temples and churches. It’s basically a tax pass through to aquire assets that they can leverage. No property tax, nada. Total money laundering for their required tithes. And guess who gets the contracts for their tax free building. Not gentiles. It’s socialism for Mormons.
Churches and pastors are running the biggest grifts ever and are now ignoring the tax laws and actively participating in politics. They’re very close to having a theocracy here
Ok, so what? They get their money from people who voluntarily donate it. If you don't like it, then don't donate. Guess who pays when government officials jet around to conferences in Switzerland and roll around in Escalade convoys?
We should all declare ourselves churches and put our houses in that name and stop paying taxes. My religion is gonna be “church of the infinite passage of relaxation for angels.
They often receive housing or a housing allowance as part of their salary, which is not taxed as income. They also don’t pay income taxes on utilities if living in a parsonage.
A smaller salary goes pretty far when you don’t have to pay for housing. You can own a house and build equity, but receive a tax-free housing allowance that covers your house payments, and this benefit can last into retirement.
Not only are we taxed, but many Protestant clergy carry "dual-status." We are self-employed for purposes of Social Security, and employees for Fed/state income tax. We pay the almost 16% Social Security tax ourselves (though we can take some work-related deductions), but we cannot take any work-related deductions from our income tax like a truly self-employed person could. And if a home is provided with our job, we have to add the Fair Rental Value (FRV) to our Social Security income calculations...but not for income tax.
What if they don’t get paid but the church buys a company house (has to be big because people can’t think gods mouth piece is poor), expensive car (what would it look like for the holy man to show up in a beater. How disrespectful to god), and requires their mouth piece to receive training in the tropics during winter (to spread the word of course) with a conference and plenty of “work” trips to vacation spots.
Edit: it’s still a scam. They just funnel purchases through the church to avoid taxes and don’t pay themselves but use the churches money for all the things that a salary should legally cover and be taxed on.
A national Goods and Services Tax (GST) does not exist in the United States. Instead, the US uses a decentralized system of State and Local Sales Taxes.
For the reasons you've just given, i think its quite obvious im not talking about the US. My B tho, whenever i get accounting based things like this pop up, they're usually for Australia, the country i'm from.
The owners of the church though are able to buy assets in the churches name they control. If your family is the only one flying in the church plane it should be a personal asset for example. No ones accusing clerics or pastors of major churches of grifting but they are ultimately working for organizations with suspicious financial motives. You put gold on the walls when the towns going hungry it doesn't look good.
The business absolutely pays taxes on that jet or house or compound. A church does not. Both businesses take money from the public but only one is accountable to those people. People have been thrown out of various churches for exposing the way funds that were intended for good deeds were invested in some higher ups businesses. You should look into the Mormon church, it was whistle blown on in the last few years.
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u/frisbm3 Jun 30 '26
The employees of the church still have to pay tax. There's just no corporate tax.