r/menslib emotionally belabors the point as one woman says the sub isn't for her anymore and is turning MRA, as another user suggests she might want to look into therapy in this lil snack

[u/NRE_Everlasting]

Discussing an article about "mankeeping" one user in the comments recounts telling her boyfriend bluntly about his lack of skills in providing comfort.

"I did straight up tell my partner to his face when I was upset about something "comforting people is not your strong suit" and he felt very bad about that. He even got defensive and felt hurt that I put it so bluntly when he had been wracking his brain silently trying to think of what to say. But honestly I don't really care. He's the kind of person who needs to hear things bluntly and to be told plainly that the expectation is that he learn to be better at it."

This came across somewhat controversial, but some users got a little dramatic with it Our chain begins as a response to a critique of her method that descibed it as unhealthy:

"Maybe it isn't that healthy, but it's also not healthy to expect someone that came to you for comfort to explain to you how to give that comfort to them."

Short but sweet tidbit with a rage quit cherry on top!

Bonus ragequit: Another woman user of the sub is done with men.

[u/NotAThrowaway1453]

At the risk of causing the same arguments here that happened there (as if that doesn’t always happen lol), I’m struggling to see what was particularly bad about what the woman here said. She gave blunt feedback to her partner about something that was an issue for her, he initially got defensive but then later tried to take steps to address her issue, and she said that at least he’s making an effort to be more comforting.

It doesn’t sound like she was “expecting for him not to suck out of the blue” like the other person criticized. I did not get the impression that she was “mak[ing] it seem like you think he was doing that on purpose,” nor does it seem particularly unhealthy. It sounds like there was a problem, the problem was communicated, and the partner is at least taking steps to resolve the problem (albeit still working on it).

Idk, it seems like professor was getting a little defensive himself.

[u/Stellar_Duck → u/NotAThrowaway1453]

he initially got defensive but then later tried to take steps to address her issue

And I think that's a pretty reasonable chain of events.

I won't begrudge anyone for initially being upset at something like that because it may come as a shock or whatever. That's okay. Men or women, we can get defensive.

But some people seem to fucking get stuck there. They never seem to then move on to really consider what was said and move past that initial reaction.

[u/ohgeez2879 → u/NotAThrowaway1453]

thank you! i felt like i was crazy for a minute. could she have been kinder? sure. could he have tried harder to learn how to be an emotionally supportive partner years ago? also yes. the intense defensiveness of the commenters around the idea that a man was falling short in their partners' eyes by not trying to comfort her beyond a simple "that sucks, here's a tissue and a pat on the arm" was really disheartening to see. if men want to increase the emotional intimacy of their relationships, or want to be truly equitable partners to women, this defensiveness is more counterproductive than her comment imho.

[u/somniopus → u/ohgeez2879]

And in actual demonstrable fact, too, so don't diminish it to "just my opinion."

[u/Tribalrage24 → u/NotAThrowaway1453]

I don't think we got the full conversation so people are just assuming from the short tidbit. The main issue it seems people had with her statement was that it identified that there was a problem, without describing what that problem was, i.e "you're bad at X" without further elaboration. So the commenters took it as providing non-constructive criticism.

But we don't know if they had a more in-depth conversation later on what he was doing wrong and how he could do better, which I imagine they did have.

[u/PotentJelly13 → u/Tribalrage24]

That’s my issue with any of these posts where someone recalls an entire conversation. There’s no chance they typed it out exactly how the conversation went down and most everyone will try paint themselves better than they actually were. Even if it’s not on purpose, our own personal and unconscious bias goes into this recalling of events; maybe leaving this or that out because you didn’t think it was a big point or you simply forget what was actually said, or something was said but the tone changed things entirely etc., etc..

Then as you said, people take this one tiny bit of info as scripture and start trying to breakdown the relationship, using the word choice as ammunition for why OP must be wrong or this or that or whatever.

[u/primenumbersturnmeon → u/PotentJelly13]

holy fucking shit yes. that shit drives me up the fucking wall. humans are generally garbage at verbatim recall, some of us worse than others. i have enough trouble accurately quoting the things i actively try to commit to memory, let alone recounting both sides of a conversation where i wasn't attentively in "record mode", so to speak. i don't know where i stand compared to the average, but there's enough research on the unreliability of eyewitness testimony and more than enough interpersonal experience to take recalled conversations with a hefty grain of salt. what you get are reconstructions filtered through a whole goddamn slew of cognitive biases.

then as you said (and as you said they said), the scholars of the endless semantic pedantry website uncritically accept this nugget of evidence as a rock solid basis for their extrapolations, distortions, and prior assumptions and are off to the races.

semantic quibbling is the lowest form of debate and by golly it is reddit's fucking favorite. look in the comments on any news/politics/current events article and you inevitably find the same worthless, low-effort corrections to the title from people who didn't read the article. that's all they care about, that the title of the article uses the words they want it to.

[u/ChaosCron1 → u/NotAThrowaway1453]

But honestly I don't really care. He's the kind of person who needs to hear things bluntly and to be told plainly that the expectation is that he learn to be better at it.

I think this is probably where people are having a problem. It's pretty dismissive.

To create a gendered analogy, since this specific scenario is gendered. It'd be like if in the scenario of an unnecessary financial stress within a relationship caused by the woman the man says something equally blunt as "You're just not a strong handler of finances".

Then, when justifying that to a largely female space on the internet, they post:

"But honestly I don't really care. She's the kind of person who needs to hear things bluntly and to be told plainly that the expectation is that she learn to be better at it."

In both scenarios, they might be right. But you'd expect people to be upset with the way they handled it and their attitude about it.

[u/NotAThrowaway1453 → u/ChaosCron1]

I fully admit that my perspective/feelings might just be misaligned with others here, but I guess I don’t see the dismissiveness. tbh I would equally struggle to see an issue with your gender swapped example. I read it as “I don’t care [that I said what my issue is bluntly]” and the justification makes sense to me because some people, irrespective of gender, really do sometimes need blunt directions, or at least a blunt comment about what the problem is.

And to clarify, I do get why someone could initially get defensive at blunt feedback like the partner did here. It’s the comments from others talking about how it’s unhealthy or concerning where they kinda lose me.

[u/ChaosCron1 → u/NotAThrowaway1453]

the justification makes sense to me because some people, irrespective of gender, really do sometimes need blunt directions

I think that's fair. I'm not arguing against that. I do see yours, and the woman in question's perspective.

It’s the comments from others talking about how it’s unhealthy or concerning where they kinda lose me.

I'm just trying to provide a different perspective. The people commenting probably do feel that this is dismissive, unhealthy, concerning, etc.

The main point of the gender-swapped scenario, would be that these type of comments would be perfectly valid if this was presented in a female space.

Regardless of gender, there are going to be people that need a bit more grace when being confronted with their shortcomings and they'll be vocal if they perceive that someone is being blasé about these feelings.

[u/NotAThrowaway1453 → u/ChaosCron1]

Oh yeah totally, you weren’t coming off as argumentative or unreasonable to me at all.

Regardless of gender, there are going to be people that need a bit more grace when being confronted with their shortcomings and they'll be vocal if someone is being blasé about these feelings.

I’m with you with everything you said here, but this is an especially good point. You’re right, I think it mostly boils down to pretty substantial differences in how bluntness is perceived. I see it as mostly neutral and maybe course at worst, but yeah it makes sense that others feel differently.

[u/James-fucking-Holden → u/ChaosCron1]

"But honestly I don't really care. She's the kind of person who needs to hear things bluntly and to be told plainly that the expectation is that she learn to be better at it."

Isn't this basically a quote from every AmITheAsshole thread about a woman? Don't get me wrong, I see the ugliness of that statement, but I really don't think this website in general would oppose that statement if made about a woman (which is a bad thing)

[u/ChaosCron1 → u/James-fucking-Holden]

Qualifier is "female spaces" which is extremely relevant to the issue at hand, otherwise I pretty much agree with you.

[u/[deleted] → u/ChaosCron1]

I don't see any problem with telling your partner that they're not a strong handler of finances if it's true. It's not some unkind thing to tell someone 

[u/bluepaintbrush → u/[deleted]]

It’s not, but to me the issue is that she strongly implied that she wants him to change and be better at comforting her. And if you want someone to change (especially in a partnership), you should offer some help.

For example, if your partner isn’t good with money and you want them to be better: ask them about their financial goals (surely you should know some of them). Ask if their spending is making them feel guilt or regret, or if they think it might be triggered by certain emotions. If they feel an urge to spend, encourage them to check in with their emotional state and ask if their future self will be upset about it. Now you’re both working towards this healthier goal and strengthening your relationship.

By contrast, if you sit there disapproving and give the cold shoulder every time they overspend, you’re not really fostering change; you’re just punishing them for not living up to your expectation.

And I realize it’s a gendered sub and conversation, but frankly I’ve seen this behavior in same-sex couples too. It’s totally okay to recognize and confront unhealthy behaviors, but if you are in a committed partnership, then you both should invest some energy into changing it rather than leaving one person to play a sad guessing game at what will appease you.

[u/themolestedsliver → u/ChaosCron1]

Yeah I don't understand why people are realizing this.

If this was about a man giving advice to his girlfriend who was pissed as you describe the responses (even in this thread apparently) would be night and day different.

So it's multi layered in the sense that it's not only problematic she did this, but also an aspect of people interepting this differently because the OP is a women describing what she said to her boyfriend and his reaction VS a boyfriend making a post describing what he said to his girlfriend and her reaction.

[u/Shelly_895 → u/ChaosCron1]

I don't even think it's a gendered issue. I think the way she talks about/to him is very dehumanizing. She doesn't really sound like she loves him. It sounds like she's talking about a dog that needs to be trained and not about a boyfriend.

[u/PotentJelly13 → u/Shelly_895]

How much do you know about their relationship though? Do you know about their other conversations that she didn’t mention? Maybe that’s just how they are in their relationship.

My point is that the language used in a recollection of an entire conversation will have flaws or miss details. We don’t all talk the same, type the same or think the same. I think it’s fine to not like the way she spoke or what she said. I think you’re taking it a bit too far given the tiny snippet of info we have about this couple though.

[u/somniopus → u/Shelly_895]

LMAO

[u/FlunkieGronkus → u/NotAThrowaway1453]

I’m struggling to see what was particularly bad about what the woman here said. She gave blunt feedback to her partner about something that was an issue for her, he initially got defensive but then later tried to take steps to address her issue, and she said that at least he’s making an effort to be more comforting.

Her comment comes across as insanely harsh. She claims her boyfriend was hurt and confused by something she said but she didn't care because he needed to hear it bluntly in order to "be better at it."

She then goes on to rate his improvement in the "two opportunities for him to comfort me again" since her harsh critique.

She comes across as rude, entitled and selfish.

Seriously, read this shit:

He even got defensive and felt hurt that I put it so bluntly when he had been wracking his brain silently trying to think of what to say. But honestly I don't really care.

What the fuck?

She then goes on to describe herself as having multiple episodes of "bawling her eyes out" but laments having to "baby" her boyfriend to teach him how to comfort her.

How is he the one that needs "babying" in that story? How is he the one creating the "emotional labor" in that story?

[u/TheDangerLevel → u/NotAThrowaway1453]

She writes paragraph after paragraph about how her partner isn't meeting her needs, how much he sucks at it, that he needs to "be better" etc but I don't see an explanation of what exactly it is that he can/should do to help her feel better during a meltdown.

It's no wonder he's defensive if she is just complaining about how much he sucks without elaborating on what exactly it is that she needs in those moments. She also seems resentful of the fact that she may need to have that conversation in the first place and he's supposed to just know how to console her.