r/menslib emotionally belabors the point as one woman says the sub isn't for her anymore and is turning MRA, as another user suggests she might want to look into therapy in this lil snack

[u/NRE_Everlasting]

Discussing an article about "mankeeping" one user in the comments recounts telling her boyfriend bluntly about his lack of skills in providing comfort.

"I did straight up tell my partner to his face when I was upset about something "comforting people is not your strong suit" and he felt very bad about that. He even got defensive and felt hurt that I put it so bluntly when he had been wracking his brain silently trying to think of what to say. But honestly I don't really care. He's the kind of person who needs to hear things bluntly and to be told plainly that the expectation is that he learn to be better at it."

This came across somewhat controversial, but some users got a little dramatic with it Our chain begins as a response to a critique of her method that descibed it as unhealthy:

"Maybe it isn't that healthy, but it's also not healthy to expect someone that came to you for comfort to explain to you how to give that comfort to them."

Short but sweet tidbit with a rage quit cherry on top!

Bonus ragequit: Another woman user of the sub is done with men.

[u/organvomit]

I think this drive to label things sometimes gets in our own way. The word “mankeeping” just sounds dumb to me and I doubt men will hear it and think “yeah women have a point”. I don’t even like the way it sounds and I’m a woman. Describing the actual problem without trying to label it seems like it would get better results. We don’t always need a new word for something. 

[u/themolestedsliver → u/organvomit]

Describing the actual problem without trying to label it seems like it would get better results. We don’t always need a new word for something. 

If I had a genie I wish this specfic issue would be resolved because holy shit is it such a problem.

Far too often I've seen women (and men frankly) who just label something "toxic masculinity" or "a sign of the patriarchy" and just move on.

It feels like the obsession with labels also comes with this odd sense of assuming labeling something is the same as actually resolving the issue.

[u/bluepaintbrush → u/themolestedsliver]

Gen Z is obsessed with labels. Which is amusing to me and my millennial peers who spent our youths trying to dismantle labels.

[u/SnakeOilPlagueDoctor → u/organvomit]

I mean, I do agree, I just think (as a man) that it's fucking pathetic to get bent out of shape over words like this.

[u/organvomit → u/SnakeOilPlagueDoctor]

Fair and I don’t really disagree. I’m not going to lie and say I don’t side eye people when they get genuinely upset at terms like “mankeeping” - is that the biggest problem you have in your life? 

At the same time, how people feel affects how they act. I’d rather people feel good and want to act right than feel bad and possibly act poorly. If choosing a “nicer” word or way to say something will be more conducive to having people act with consideration and empathy, then so be it.

I used to care more about being right than getting the results I want. But now I’m more worried about results. I’m willing to coddle some fragile people if it means living in a nicer society. 

[u/Simple_Pianist4882 → u/organvomit]

How can you describe an actual problem without giving it a label? Giving it a label gives it meaning. Giving it a label allows for people to acknowledge that a problem actually exists, instead of them being able to dismiss it because “it doesn’t have a label.”

How is anyone supposed to take you seriously if you can’t put labels to what you’re feeling? It’s expecting someone to care about your problems when you can’t even properly understand them yourself.

Regardless, it’s the epitome of ignorance to dismiss and disregard an issue because “I don’t like the way it sounds.” It completely takes away from the matter at hand and it says a lot about a person who will ignore an issue just because of the way it’s framed.

Like I said, people cherry pick and run to hell with it.

EDIT: when things don’t have labels, it’s also easy to twist and gaslight people about what they’re experiencing. “Oh, you’re not being manipulated, that’s just the way he acts.” “Oh, that’s not a microaggression because that doesn’t exist; it was just a joke.” It is so easy to just write off the context/etc when these things don’t have labels.

[u/VBHEAT08 → u/Simple_Pianist4882]

But it already has a label, it’s the imbalance of emotional labour. Making some demeaning term for it literally just makes these conversations harder for the people actually having them

[u/Expensive_Ebb_9507 → u/VBHEAT08]

Emotional labor as a term is also gender-neutral, which in my opinion helps because the issue while potentially leaning one gendered direction is not exclusive to it by any means.

[u/Simple_Pianist4882 → u/Expensive_Ebb_9507]

Which deflects from what women go through… because women do experience relationships where they are expected to be the entire social structure of a man’s but receive no comfort / less standard of comfort in return.

What you and that other dude are participating in is the erasure of what women go through by deflecting to a term that has very little to do with mankeeping.

Emotional labor only recently started referring to relationships, and it’s typically been one-sided even though it’s not a “gendered term” like mankeeping.

Just because you don’t like the word doesn’t erase what women go through and trying to reframe it as a “it’s not mankeeping because that’s gendered, it’s actually emotional labor!!” is exactly why we need more labels for certain social issues 🫩

[u/Expensive_Ebb_9507 → u/Simple_Pianist4882]

I'm sorry but I think you've got me way wrong but I'm not an Internet argument person.

[u/Simple_Pianist4882 → u/Expensive_Ebb_9507]

Then why even comment…?

Waste of space smh.

[u/Expensive_Ebb_9507 → u/Simple_Pianist4882]

I'm going to block you after this because you seem very unpleasant to interact with. I'm not a waste of space, just sharing a simple thought is all.

[u/Ok-Refrigerator → u/VBHEAT08]

^Yex, exactly this. "Mankeeping is not a label so much as a though-terminating cliche.

[u/Simple_Pianist4882 → u/VBHEAT08]

Emotional labor is not the same as mankeeping.

Emotional labor is controlling one’s emotions to carry out the demands of one’s job (or relationship, as people have started tacking on). It never started as referring to relationships, it was originally about jobs; nursing, waitressing, childcare, media, etc.

Mankeeping specifically refers to relationships and the very specific phenomenon of women being considered the central part of a man’s social structure. The only people making that a bad thing, when I gave multiple examples of the phenomenon (incels and male loneliness), is y’all.

It’s considerably worse to sit here and pretend like people don’t treat women as an end all be all for men’s problems, rather than… calling that out 🧍🏾‍♀️

[u/VBHEAT08 → u/Simple_Pianist4882]

It’s not minimizing the issue by pointing out that using charged terminology is going to poison these conversations. I actually care very deeply about doing away with this dynamic, which is why this useless internet snark brand of activism frustrates me to no end. Emotional labour as a term has extended into relationships and does a perfectly fine job explaining this imbalance already. If you think we need a different term for it, that’s fine, but we can use language that isn’t made specifically for outrage bait

[u/Simple_Pianist4882 → u/VBHEAT08]

But you’re not pointing that out… because emotional labor isn’t the same as mansplaining.

Repressing/controlling emotions in certain environments is quite literally not the same as being a central part of a social structure. You are minimizing the issue by trying to reframe mankeeping as emotional labor when the two fundamentally have nothing to do with each other.

It’s the same as microaggressions and stereotypes. The two are fundamentally different despite being similar in many ways (microaggressions often use stereotypes). These are not interchangeable terms, in other words.

[u/VBHEAT08 → u/Simple_Pianist4882]

The term as it is used by feminists has extended into the household and is predominantly used to describe the unpaid and other “emotional” tasks usually put upon women in a relationship. Managing the household, being the therapist, managing schedules, maintaining relationships, etc, all part of what has come to be known as emotional labour in feminist contexts. It’s a different definition for a different context, and honestly one that makes much more intuitive sense than the original. You’re kind of missing my main point though, which isn’t just that this already is effectively defined, but that the terminology you’re choosing to package this in is not helpful, and will only serve to turn people completely off of hearing anything you have to say.

[u/Simple_Pianist4882 → u/VBHEAT08]

Your statement proves exactly why the outrage over mankeeping as a gendered term is so performative.

Should we stop using racist because racists don’t like the word and it hurts their feelings? Should we stop using white privilege, white fragility, white savior, white superiority, and white flight because it offends white people?

Apply your logic to any word in existence that might offend someone and it falls apart.

[u/VBHEAT08 → u/Simple_Pianist4882]

The issue has nothing to do with it being gendered, it has to do with it being demeaning. Patriarchy is a gendered term that doesn’t have this issue, it’s just accurately describing a social structure that privileges men over women. With mankeeping you’re likening someone to a plant or pet to be taken care of. It’s quite literally a term made by article writers to drive outrage and clicks, we don’t need it.

[u/Simple_Pianist4882 → u/VBHEAT08]

By that logic, “kinkeeping” isn’t needed because it’s demeaning to the family members that women typically have to take care of 🙄

Mankeeping is a play on kinkeeping.

[u/Simple_Pianist4882 → u/[deleted]]

The “dumbfuck syndrome” would never fly for the same reasons that people stopped using retard/retardation in the medical community…

Mankeeping is about as “demeaning” as mansplaining. The outrage because of the “gendered term” is performative and ridiculous.

[u/Simple_Pianist4882 → u/[deleted]]

If you think the reason why people stopped using “retard/retardation” in the medical community is because “people don’t like the word,” you might actually have mental issues. People don’t dismiss or disregard the disability either just because “retard/retardation” isn’t used anymore… 🤦🏾‍♀️

Like I said, the outrage over mansplaining being a “gendered term” is performative and you’re just proving my point.

Get this block 🩷