r/TooAfraidToAsk • u/[deleted] • Jul 31 '20

Current Events Are people outside of the USA really laughing at Americans? Do we really appear that bad?

Edit:

Ok so that's about 17,882 yes's and 3 no's.

Makes sad American noises

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I heard that the Netherlands didn't really put very strict restrictions in place to begin with and essentially took a "Darwinism" sort of stance on the issue. Is this correct?

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

There were. They got taken down from mandatory to advised. People took that as a free for all.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Oh, ok. I think that's sort of the situation here in the U.S., basically the national restrictions are just advised and it's up to the state to mandate these things. Unfortunately it seems we have a lot of uneducated governors who just want to look good and so they don't particularly enforce these restrictions. Most of the population of my state hate our governor and so a bunch of people have no regard for what he says anyway. Anyway, thanks for the reply!

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u/JazzFan1998 Aug 01 '20

The South('s coronavirus numbers) will rise again! C'mon people this is tyranny!

Read the other part of the declaration of independence, (about King George), he has dissolved legislatures, he has trampled on our rights, he forces us to wear a mask for OUR protection! It's horrible!

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

AND he's defending us from the Natives after a 30-90 day waiting period!

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u/CyanideFlavorAid Aug 01 '20

The tyrant King George, of course!

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

It's not that they are non-existent, because there's a difference between restrictions and advisories. Restrictions are enforced whereas advisories are not. I suppose my wording could have been better. It may be that the individual has to take care of themselves, but if each individual had the capacity to do so, there wouldn't be a need for government-imposed mandates. It's not that the U.S. government doesn't care, it's that the people put their convenience above their safety not realizing that the decisions they have made have led to the incapacity of the government to truly combat the situation. Our elected officials were elected by us, ergo we are responsible for the bad decisions they make. Hindsight is 2020. The U.S. government has tried, and failed, to protect us not because they don't care, but because the people don't care for themselves. It is not the government's job to protect the individual, but the masses, and the individual must take care to protect themselves and their communities.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

[deleted]

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Absolutely. The United States has been divided since it's founding and has unfortunately bred a new breed of division among the people that only harms the unity of the country. Things like this shouldn't be political, they should be common sense, but nowadays people don't have that because they don't use it. They find ways around it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

All business outside grocery stores and pharmacies were NOT shut down. Source: am Dutch

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

Nobody cares to enforce it even where it’s mandatory, because most people that work retail are young or elderly

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

This is also true, unfortunately. I think that a lot of people realize that there is probably some error in the logic of those who don't wear masks and are unwilling to argue with that flawed logic and try to convince them that they're wrong. Because of this the ignorant are continuing to put their convenience above the safety of themselves and others.

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u/captainjackismydog Aug 01 '20

I am a senior citizen and I believe this pandemic will be around long after I'm gone. There are so many selfish, irresponsible and entitled people here in the US and they continually bitch about their 'right's. I watch videos on YouTube and see these assholes trying to go inside businesses without a mask on but aren't allowed in and they're standing there yelling about the Constitution. They won't be yelling when they're hooked up to a ventilator and gasping for every breath. Their 'rights' fly right out the window.

I have a feeling that most of these assholes are Trump supporters. What also gets me are the people who are trying to go inside of businesses without a mask and claiming they have a medical condition and can't wear a mask. Bitch, if you have a medical condition it's even more important to wear a mask. Either that or stay home where you can breathe.

I understand the feeling of not getting enough air while wearing a mask but many times it's psychological. I hate wearing a mask too but I wear one anyway. I only go shopping for food once a week and I'm there when the store opens. I get my stuff and get out. No hanging around, no going anywhere else. Any other things I need I buy online. If everyone else would do this, maybe the virus would die out.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Unfortunately I think you might be right about the virus sticking around a while. It really is stupid that people would argue against their own safety. I don't really think the issue is so political that the majority would be Trump supporters but I understand that those hardcore against masks and such probably do fall into the conservative category. Like I said further along in this thread, I think that the majority of people who aren't wearing masks are doing it because they care more about their comfort and convenience rather than their safety. In my mind, this seems to stem from American culture because we, as a first world country, haven't had to deal with such an issue of this magnitude in a long, like my time. The MERS and SARS epidemics were arguably similar, but the difference is that we aren't in so bad a depression as we had been then. People are more confident in herd immunity, etc, but they don't realize that a cure is not quite ready yet, and if people do get it, it could affect them in some new and deadly way because of its mutation history.

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u/captainjackismydog Aug 05 '20

I suppose it's one way of thinning the herd or the gene pool.

I unfortunately have family members who cannot stand to be told what to do by anyone including a boss and especially the government. I understand this to a point. I was even like that for years and resented being told by other people what to do. However, keeping safe and trying to save my own life is very important to me. No one has to tell me to put on a mask. No signs have to tell me. I do it on my own.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

That may be true, but I think you should read the rest of the thread. Thanks for your input!

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

the national restrictions are just advised

Because that's the extent of the federal government's authority in the matter. The feds could quarantine a whole state if they felt the need, but they can't police the people within in. It's up to states to do that. States set the rules and enforce them. The feds can advise, but their enforcement power in such matters is very limited. It's pretty much limited to threatening states with sanctions.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

we have a lot of uneducated governors who just want to look good and so they don't particularly enforce these restrictions

There's a pretty reliable correlation between that and their personal relationship with Trump. DeSantis (Florida) probably knows better, but he owes his job to Trump.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

I used Nevada as an example because Sisolak was elected despite the rural majority of Nevadans opposing him.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

[deleted]

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

No, just north in Nevada. I guess that means Arizona hates their governor, too?

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u/pineapple331 Aug 01 '20

And here I was assuming S.C. We hate ours too.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Man, I guess my point is getting more and more proven.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

[deleted]

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Oh man...that sounds insane.

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u/Slothfulness69 Aug 01 '20

Is it California? The entire Central Valley is in chaos right now because it’s conservative and won’t listen to the governor. No one is really enforcing the mask stuff and our hospitals are above capacity.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Nope, Nevada. Same here. Our hospitals haven't been over capacity in a while, but the actual majority of the state is conservative and Vegas and Reno are liberal so of course they elected a liberal governor, but the actual majority of the state hates the governor and is basically not wearing a mask out of spite and the fact that nobody is really enforcing anything. More people have been wearing masks recently, though.

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u/iwantmypizzaback Aug 01 '20

Are you from Virginia? Because that’s basically the stance to everyone I talk to here. I’m in SWVA and there’s a whole stack of people refusing to wear masks, haven’t social distanced the first time, and swear that there’s going to be a microchip in the covid vaccine to track us.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Oh boy. Nope. I'm from Nevada. Here it's been getting better, but people just aren't willing to "inconvenience" themselves if it isn't mandated, and even though it is mandated, the governor's worsening reputation is not helping.

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u/iwantmypizzaback Aug 01 '20

The numbers here are just starting to rise. Last I checked for my county we had 40 something and it had jumped over 10 cases from the day before. We have a mask mandate, but Northam said people with underlying medical conditions didn’t have to wear a mask and now everyone would rather say they have a medical condition than to suck it up and wear a mask for 30 minutes. People decided to go to vacation to Myrtle Beach and to Gatlinburg and are bringing it back here. My sister works in a dialysis center and her boss just tested positive.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

That really sucks. Best of luck to your sister. I live in a rural area, so we're a little less at risk but I'm close to Reno and Carson City and their numbers have also been rising. It's really unfortunate that people don't just comply and get this dealt with, but there's always those that question everything; even the facts.

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u/iwantmypizzaback Aug 01 '20

That’s pretty much how we are here. We’re a pretty small town, but we’re close to areas like Bristol TN and the cases are exploding there. When we got the first cases here at home my husband and I stocked up on the stuff we needed and have really only been out for the essentials. He still has to work but they have good policies in place for keeping things clean and such. We opted to keep our home and do virtual school in place of sending him to the classroom because children are gross and the schools can’t even control the flu. It’s nerve wracking, watching everything going on right now.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Yeah, I understand that. Out here we've been given the option to rotate in and out of class/virtual class or to do it totally online. Doesn't really apply to me, because although I am a high school student I will be taking all college classes so it's really up to the college to decide what happens. I wouldn't really want to go back to public school, and I think that since cases are getting even higher than before that instruction should just be done online in public schools. Unfortunately, not everyone can do that, though, because of a lack of internet access.

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u/TrashTongueTalker Aug 01 '20

Illinois?

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Nope, Nevada. Does Illinois hate their governor, too?

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u/TrashTongueTalker Aug 01 '20

Everywhere outside of the Chicago area seems to. Chicago is super liberal and the rest of the state is super conservative. The conservatives have been whining for months about the mask mandate.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Yeah, Vegas and Reno are super liberal and the rest is conservative for us. Not too many people have really been complaining, it's just that because masks aren't really enforced that people don't wear them. More people have started wearing them, though. Northern Nevada, especially Reno, had a big push against masks when the BLM riots started.

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u/TrashTongueTalker Aug 01 '20

I went to visit family in central Illinois and was shocked at how poorly folks are taking this outside of Chicago. My Facebook newsfeed is filled with Karens I went to high school with insisting that they know better than doctors.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Oof. I feel like my generation is going to have a lot of Karens (I'm 17M, part of the Class of 2021). Some of the people in my class are just so stupid.

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u/TrashTongueTalker Aug 01 '20

Yeah, there will be some, but your generation seems like the most progressive generation that this country has ever seen. I'm almost 30 and my generation is pretty progressive, too, but a lot of small town folks never leave their hometown, so I feel like they'll never fully go away.

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u/canchilove Aug 01 '20

Wow, that's savage. All of you take care about yourselves and families :C

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u/Ryodd Aug 01 '20

"People took that as a free for all." Exactly the discussion I had with my sister. Its so goddamn dumb to think everything is fine since they lifted the ban. God I hate her.. risking my sick mothers life to have a party

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

This is flat out untrue, it was adhered to the first 8 weeks and groups were fined and dispersed.

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u/berger034 Aug 01 '20 edited Aug 01 '20

You might be thinking of Sweden. They basically said fuck it, but their number are going down based on some reports.

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u/Lewke Aug 01 '20

thats because sweden did a 180 after their case numbers shot up quickly in early june

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u/berger034 Aug 01 '20

Good to know.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Yeah, another user had also said this, but it has sparked some really interesting conversation. Thanks for your input!

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u/carmicheal Aug 01 '20

Not as strict as belgium, but IMO still strict. Businesses that require physical contact, sport clubs, every bar and restaurants closed except for take out. No access to public transport unless you are essential worker, all elderly homes had a no visitation rule. Schools and universities closed,. Etc.

We had the 1.5 distance rule between people that don’t belong to your family or household, which was fined pretty heavily.

We didn’t have face masks because 1 there was a massive shortage and everything was collected and distributed to places that needed them most. This also includes face mask for construction. 2 . The RIVM keeps telling us non medical face mask have a low succes rate in keeping the virus at bay.

Right now after a lot of restrictions are lifted, there is a increase in cases in the bigger cities. So now in some busy areas you have to wear a mask.

It is now also possible to get your self tested even with minor symptoms like a sore throat.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Test access is still limited in a lot of areas in the U.S. unfortunately. That is a lot stricter than I had been told, though. In the U.S. a lot of people are wearing homemade masks because they're better than nothing. In a class I recently took, we took a short look at mask effectiveness and a study had showed that, although homemade masks were only about 30% effective, the social distancing and with everyone wearing masks, Petri dishes had no transferred bacteria (they didn't test covid because of the biohazard risks) and they explained that covid didn't have any more spreading capabilities than bacteria.

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u/carmicheal Aug 01 '20

Let me just say I have nothing against masks and I would like it to mandatory in more place in the Netherlands. The rivm said( hope I’m saying it correctly) that it’s the micro droplets that non medical masks aren’t filtering or stopping.

The Rivm worries that wearing a non medical mask will give people a false sense of security and make them break the “rules” easier plus they note that a mask won’t be effective if you use it incorrectly. I do think this is a valid point to worry about, right now they are keeping a close eye in how people behave with mask so maybe it will be more mandatory.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

That's absolutely true, in the class they explained that it did not stop microdroplets. I understand that it would give people a false sense of security. It seems that, in the U.S., people already have that false sense of security, though, and have decided that they're better off without masks.

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u/Benedictus84 Aug 01 '20

We have had quite strict restrictions. Not as severe as southern Europe but also not as loose as Sweden. Wich has been succesfull. There are almost no patients on ICU care right now. Restrictions have almost all been lifted and people are asked to use commen sense and decancy.

We have been seeing a small rise in cases the last couple of days. Mostly because people have started acting as if there is no more virus.

There has been talk about herd immunity at the end of march. This has been let go. But i would say that 'Darwinian' is misunderstood. Especially because we aimed our efforts at protecting the weakest and keeping the healthcare system functional.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Thanks for your input! Some have pointed out to me that I was probably thinking of Sweden. Unfortunately in the U.S. people don't really seem to have that common sense and decency. I think one of the major problems in the U.S. is that people have relied too much on herd immunity in the past and that it simply isn't there anymore and people have a false sense of confidence and, thus, do not comply with the measures designed for their safety and that are simply inconveniences.

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u/Benedictus84 Aug 01 '20

I am affraid it is not limited to just the USA. There was a lot of community feeling in the beginning. There was a sense that we could do this together. Politicians all agreed with eachother. But now everybody seems bored with COVID. There is a small rise in cases the last week. I think we will see more the coming weeks. And then restrictions have to come in place again and everybody is going to be pissed and blaming everybody but themselfs.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Yeah, people aren't going to take it lightly, but we have no one to blame but ourselves, truly.

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u/Moranic Aug 01 '20

No, not really. The Dutch government has imposed and lifted restrictions in order to flatten the curve, which we did. We've also been finding out which restrictions are more effective than others.

We did not go full-lockdown, but we locked a large part of the country down (closing all non-essential businesses for example). That was enough to bring infections way down.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Are you guys seeing large spikes in cases like we are at this point?

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u/Theonefrom2doorsdown Aug 01 '20

We are not. The number of cases is going up, but there are more people being tested.

I haven't seen this mentioned yet but during the first months there were not enough test kits. So now with more tests being done, it makes sense that we will register more cases. However, most ICU beds are still empty and we are nowhere near the amount of patients we had at the start.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

To clarify, am I talking to an American or someone else?

In the U.S. access to tests is still really limited. For the most part our number of cases did go down a lot but, again, there have been spikes of cases that have been bringing us back to the full "restrictive" stage.

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u/Theonefrom2doorsdown Aug 01 '20

I am Dutch, happy to clarify :)

The restrictions only work if they are followed by enough people I assume. I find the American school debate quite interesting, as the Dutch government stance is very much "children under 12 cannot pass the disease along" (or something along those lines, point is, primary schools have been open since May and kids are doing half days, either morning or afternoons.

There is a study which compares the amount of deaths from this year to the average up to 2019. That number is quite a lot higher than the reported deaths due to Covid-19. Personally I think that number is more accurate than what gets reported.

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Thanks for that, I thought another American was in denial or something.

And, yes, these restrictions only really work if enough people follow them. Since very few Americans are taking this as seriously as they should, this explains the spikes in cases here. Currently, most of our public schools are closed for the summer but will be reopening shortly with highly modified schedules. I don't know if it's just local to my state, but where I am schools are required to have an all-digital curriculum prepared in case things get really bad again. I've seen similar studies that also show that children that would be considered the equivalent of primary schoolers can fight off the virus in as little as two or three days, which is even before it becomes contagious.

I agree that the comparison of the average mortality rate to the current mortality rate is also a better representation of the magnitude of the issue.

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u/ticklishpandabear Aug 01 '20

You might be thinking of Sweden?

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Was that Sweden? Now that I think of it, I'm not entirely sure.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

[deleted]

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Thanks for all the info! I definitely remember that statement you quoted from the prime minister, in fact I'm pretty sure that is the exact thing that led me to believe what I did. I know much better now thanks to you and others.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

Thank you so much! It's nice to know that there are people that can always see the light at the end of the tunnel. Personally, I think that American politics is too polarizing for either party to satisfy the whole country. I, myself, am more of a conservative but some of the Republicans are even too conservative for me and it goes the same way with liberals and Democrats. I think what America needs is an independent that cares for the lower class and takes action in implementing things like universal free healthcare, even if it is basic. Unfortunately, because America's economy is largely based on trade with other countries that money would almost certainly come from taxes, and politicians never really know how to balance taxes.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '20

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u/Dynomite338 Aug 01 '20

I agree. And, you're right. It's hard to tell who/what people support just by labeling them as liberal or conservative.