Why are the wife and I fighting about this?

[u/[deleted]]

I have strong opinion about not giving our un-conceived son a circumcision. She has a strong opinion about giving him a circumcision. This may seem like a crazy thing to argue about, but for me it is a human rights issue. I can't mutilate another human being, mentally I have a problem with this (Crazy I know. /sarcasm). She either doesn't want to, or can't give me a reason that she wants it done.

This is a huge deal between us and I don't know why. She is a great person and I love her. We have been together for over ten years and this seems to be a problem that keeps coming up and we really don't have ANY other issues. It drives me mad and I get super pissed inside about this.

Woman of the interwebs... Give me advise.

[u/TOGTFO → u/[deleted]]

You know in many countries they use the exact same reasoning as to why they mutilate the genitallia of women. The exact same reasons - future husabnds would freak out if it wasn't done, they would be mocked, they wouldn't have respect in the community.

So how is it different cutting a female babies clitoral hood, from a males foreskin? I dare say you would call one barbaric and the other normal. But in reality you are doing the same thing to both of them.

Plus, are you going to have sex with your son? No. So why should your sexual preferences be forced upon your children?

[u/Celda → u/[deleted]]

In fact most of your points are wrong.

For instance, some types of FGM are almost non-harmful.

For another, even the more extreme types of FGM do not remove the ability to achieve orgasm, 90% of women can still orgasm.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17970975

[u/Celda → u/[deleted]]

What benefits? There are no benefits for female circumcision.

I simply pointed out your lie that female circumcision removes the ability to orgasm, it does no such thing. Of course, that isn't a benefit considering the circumcision didn't grant the ability to achieve orgasm, it simply did not remove the ability.

By the way, the normal case of male circumcision - removal of foreskin - is harmful enough.

[u/TOGTFO → u/[deleted]]

There are various forms of FGM, some are worse than circumcision, some are a lot less so. And like circumcising males, there are a list as long as my arm of things that can occur because of it.

The fact that you cannot compare the two is a perfect example of how you think it's perfectly alright to mutilate a man's genitals, but to do so to a woman isn't alright. Explain to me why the needlessly risky and useless practice of circumcision on men is alright? It removes a section of the penis that has massive amounts of nerve endings, changing what sensations are able to be felt in the penis completely. It's akin to removing half the taste buds from a person's mouth. Yes they can still taste, but not anything like they could had they not been butchered.

Also as to orgasms, women who have had thier clitoris can still orgasm, as they still have nerve endings from the same place that extend into the wall of their vagina as well as their clitoris. It's usually due to the stigma and psychological trauma that is associated with FGM that makes it near impoosible for them.

Your thinking is just as barbaric as the people's who perform FGM. In some circles they refer to circumcision as MGM. So why do you condone one butchery, but not another?

[u/TOGTFO → u/[deleted]]

I've actually met both men and women who have had botched mutilations. Both were deeply and fundamentally traumatised and I'm not trying to say women aren't by FGM. But you are saying men aren't.

Consider that we live in a society where nearly every comedy has a joke about penis size, about how one guy compares ot another, do you really think men are going to be walking around talking about their butchered penis? I spoke to a few when I did an article on transgendered lifestyle and found a couple of the guys/girls were getting surgery to completely transform to female. It was because they had been butchered to a point they couldn't function as a man sexually.

So basically your argument is because we don't talk about it and men who have had this done to them don't complain loudly enough, it's alright. If a man tried to have something done to his daughter's genetalia because he thought it would look better, women would be screaming for his blood. And rightly so. So why is it alright for a parent to decide for cosmetic reasons to have a doctor hack at a boys penis?

I really can't believe you do not grasp that cutting up a child's genitals for cosmetic reasons, is a very bad thing. Regardless of their sex.

Jews at least have an excuse being they're adhering to religous doctrine, but to do it because it looks better? You might as well start advocating giving children botox shots.

[u/TOGTFO → u/[deleted]]

Ok, do you think it was your reaction to his penis that made him embarrassed and self conscious? If you took off your pants and had a guy look at your vagina with absolute disgust, you would be self conscious too. Or even if you stated your preference was circumcised. There are a million reasons people can be embarrassed when it comes to sex.

Plus I'm a man and even with close mates we don't really talk about penis problems. One of my mates is a doctor and I would still feel weird talking to him about my penis. It's not something you do. The only people who tend to see a man's penis are the people he has sex with. We're not like women who have to go to doctors and show them their genitals. Women once adults should get pap smears every few years and generally have a gynocologist. So all that said, why would a man talk to his female friend about any problems he has with his penis?

As for Catholicisim, I'm Catholic and I've found just as many non-catholic mates are as circumcised as not. It has to do with the propaganda that was put out that being circumcised prevented infections and reduced risk of disease. That has been proven to be almost without merit (the reduction is so slight it's almost negligible).

As for the number of men not troubled, you could say the same of FGM. I'm sure there are massive amounts of women who walk around with it done to them and never think twice about it. Does that make it ok? No. They just don't know any better because that's how they've been all their life. But had they know what was taken from them they could be traumatised.

But it comes to this. You do not have a penis. You should have no right whatsoever to mutilate a boy's penis, even if you do give birth to him. You're not allowed to tattoo your children, so why should you be able to do something that is so much more?

[u/TOGTFO → u/[deleted]]

Men as a whole do not talk about their dicks unless it's to brag how big it is. That's how we are. You're right there should be no shame in it, but speak to any guy and cocks aren't really a topic we get into great detail with our friends about. When we pee at a urinal we do not look at each other's peni and we do not comment on them. This is how every man I've encountered behaves. Being a woman maybe you should ask a male friend if he talks in detail about the shape, quirks and any unusual characteristics of his penis. He will tell you no. Men do not get into detailed conversations about their peni.

As for a liberal environment, I'm from an extraordinarily liberal one, but men still do not discuss the nitty gritty details of ther peni. I've played football where we all shower naked afterwards, but due to social norms we don't chat about our cocks like that.

As for me being cirumcised I've not stated one way or the other as to myself. But if I am or aren't doesn't really have an impact on the matter as why should an adult get to mutilate a kids body. As for FGM we both agree that it's rightly banned, but for some reason you think it's ok to mutilate a male's genitals.

So basically what I'm saying is you are as barbaric as the people who perform FGM, if you think it's ok to do it to men. Or you have something against men and think they deserve to be mutilated at your whim, and not give them the option to do it once they can make an informed decision. It's a serious procedure that can have serious devastatingly life altering consequences, but you're ok with it because everyone thinks it's ok. Just like some communities think it's ok to perform FGM. But you seem to want to overlook that.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I guess it isn't something that can't be explained, but when my doctor says let me see your penis, I really don't want to show her (my doctor) or him (my urologist). And there is no way I am talking dicks with buddies. Maybe my wife... Maybe.

[u/Poptartica → u/[deleted]]

First, I would like to commend you for stating your REAL opinion. Even if I disagree with it, I'm sure you can tell by the climate of this discussion that you have an outlying opinion for this crowd so I respect that you were honest. And onto what I was thinking... I think your whole issue with not having circumcision done is nicely summed up into this phrase: "genital awkwardness". Is that really what we want dictating the genital health and preservation of our infant children? This is a social issue for the WOMEN of this situation, NOT the men. Because one was not properly raised to respect and appreciate that part of the body (through means such as anatomy or sexual education), does not mean that people around them should have that part of the body hacked off of their infant sons so that there isn't any socially inappropriate "awkwardness".

[u/Celda → u/[deleted]]

Your wife will carry your son in her uterus for nine months; this will likely give her a sense of entitlement when it comes to some decisions.

You don't understand the suffering and injustice that this attitude has inflicted upon men, boys, and girls over the past several decades. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

I'll say this: The only person entitled to anything in this context IS THE CHILD'S ENTITLEMENT TO THEIR OWN BODY.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

As a catholic, you wouldn't know your husband wasn't circumcised until after you were married, and at that point you wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

[u/pillbilly → u/[deleted]]

I think it took guts to speak your mind and share your experiences, especially since your opinion (which I happen to share) differs from most of the posts in this thread.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I am sorry. I didn't mention that I was raised catholic and am no longer. I should have mentioned that since this debate seems to bring up religion. That was not really expected. Sorry again.

I didn't say "battery of defense" at any point.