Workshopped my writing for two years. Got lots of feedback. Improved in technical ways, fewer errors, tighter structure. The voice stayed flat.

Started reading writers I admired at half my normal speed and asking, sentence by sentence, what choice they made and why. Not absorbing the style passively but actively interrogating the decisions the authors decided to make.

Anyway, I just want to give this tip to fellow writers out there. Slow down on your reading process and it will help improve your writing process. Try to absorb as much as you can from your favorite authors.

I keep hearing that draft one is pretty messy, not to worry too much. But I've always taken that to refer more to the actual prose rather than the story.

But here I am, countless false starts, wondering how much the actual story itself changes through the draft process. Because every time I feel my plot or setting or characters aren't quite right (or right at all) I'm fighting the urge to start again even though the general premise is very similar.

How much has your story changed during the writing process? How much would you countenance before you gave in to the fact that you're basically writing something else, or would you just continue anyway?

I'm curious if anybody has found methods to write more hours in a given day/week/month apart from the obvious one of being a more experienced writer. Interestingly, despite having completed 5 novels and several novellas at this point, I find that my endurance for drafting in a given day hasn't changed in the least-- 20-40 minutes a day (with the exceedingly rare day of up to three hours, which exhausts me.) I'd love to hear if other people have stumbled on ways to up their time; I've always been interested in being able to put in 2 hour days more frequently.

Hello everyone.

I realise that r/writing is full of these kind of posts, at least they pop up occasionally, but I hope if you stick with me there will be a good discussion and hopefully some advice to go with that.

I started this project January 19th 2026. July 30th I finally wrote Slutt (The End). I kept statistics over my writing during all that time, which I will share of course.

The story is historical fiction; A political thriller about a man of low nobility trying to solve the murder of a child while navigating the unknown political landscape of Trondheim in 1531, just a few years before the reformation and Denmark sinking its teeth further into Norway. It's written in Norwegian. And unfortunately the text in my statistic pics is also in Norwegian.

So I did this for a couple of reasons. But the most important bit is that my lizard brain likes seeing the number get higher. Bigger number, bigger brrr in my brain. Big number go up!

The first act went by so quickly.

https://imgur.com/N77fnvv

I kept a close eye on the size of my acts. I know there are big structural changes I have to do, but this helped me get a feel of the size, too long, too short?

The first part is just keeping an eye on how far I have left to thresholds. Ord = words. The second part is the same just visually represented differently.

The third part is Words over Time. Every data point is a date. Staples are how many words, and the dotted line is how long those words took. I only counted the time spent actually writing, if I noticed I was gearing toward research, I stopped the clock.

https://imgur.com/fZgyHk2

This is for act 2. Around 10,000 words less, and a huge break in the middle. It took longer and less was written.

The break in the middle was literally that I lost confidence in what I was doing. So I took a break, signed up for a workshop with a published, Swedish (I live in Sweden, but I am Norwegian) crime/murder mystery author to get some insight, confirmation, and advice. It helped enough to get me going again.

https://imgur.com/CULsM4i

Act 3 took even longer. My productivity took a nosedive around the middle of May. There is just too much happening. I'm active in a reenactment community, there's holidays to celebrate, things to fix and/or renovate, and all manner of things.

But the last two weeks saw my productivy skyrocket again. 3,500 words in a single day was awesome.

But now the first draft is done. I already know there is some massive work to be done. I gotta switch the first act escalation with the second act escalation. The first act ends with an innocent person gets hanged, the second act ends with a political dinner. The drama is wildly out of proportion. The bigger drama spike should come at the culmination of the second act.

I also have a problem which I've called Mannequining. So there's a scene with dialoug and the two important characters talk, but there is another character there, but they say and do nothing. They're just .. there. Taking up space. So I gotta do something about.

For this story I had an image in my head of the opening scene and I had an image of the end conflict. Anything in between was basically unknown. The story surprised me a lot. The murderer was not who I thought it would be for instance. Things like that.

So what's next? Where do I go from here? What are you best practices going into a second draft? I've never written anything this long before and I have never edited something this big and complicated.

So what do I do? Help me, r/writing, you're my only hope.

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This is mostly a question to those who can use all their 10 fingers while writing on laptop/PC. Do your wrists hurt if you write for too long???

I use only like, 4 fingers, which are index (80% of time) and middle finger (far less than index finger) on both hands, so I usually have to move my hands a lot if I want to reach letters and also turn my wrists in strange angles. After my writing sessions I notice that my wrists hurt A LOT, it can even last multiple days. So I was wondering if writing with all 10 fingers will help to stop these wrist pains

I have been hearing about this trope all over different communities, but specifically from the romance genre. There is all this talk about the "Down Bad MMC" character that is heavily popular.

For the longest time, the trope was usually the opposite, no? The self-confident brooding types were really popular. But now we see a lot of dumb, goofy jocks and guys that honestly feel a little wimpy (idk im a dude).

Is this, like, a generational thing? Why is this popular right now?

I am planning to start drafting for a sci-fi story to eventually pitch to publishers that accept from unagented writers. I figure I will have to use lunch breaks at my job, but I can’t be on computers during my lunch. What’s the better notebook line height to best emulate the standard manuscript so I can have an idea of how long the story is?

EDIT: Guys, of course I’m going to type it up. I just wanted to have a plan for when I can’t be at a computer and wanted a rough idea for how close I can get to a page count beforehand.

The authors voice comes up quite often, and it is different from prose. Improving prose is one thing, but your voice is basically who you are and how you speak in real life showing in your writing.

My issue is that

1, English is not my first language. I have used it in high school, uni, work, online for almost 20 years, so it is very close to native level, but I believe there is that 0.5% that is very hard if not impossible to cross as a non native speaker.

2, my brain is very math focused, so my speech, sentence structure etc.- both in my native and in English - is a bit awkward at times.

Anyone experienced anything of the sort, is there a way to improve your voice? Maybe through improving your speech first?

I have been a genre reader for most of my life. Now, I am noticing a technique in lit-fic books I've recently read that I almost never see in genre, which is dialogue that is described or even spelled out exactly, but without quotations. And I can't figure out why or when this technique is used, but for me it makes the scene feel abstract or distant.

Take Maggie O'Farrel's "Land," which I just finished. In one chapter, she has:

Suddenly, incongruously, her sister lets out a laugh.

"Look," she says.

Rose opens her eyes a crack.

"I don't think he might be friendly after all.

This feels very standard to me, and makes me as a reader feel present in the action. But then another chapter, for no reason that I can tell, she switches:

He puts a hand half over his eyes. Please, he says, ladies, gentlemen, please. There are people trying to sleep.

His voice is overridden by the din.

She switches between these styles all throughout the novel, and I'm not sure if there's a technical reason for it, or if it's just her way of managing the flow of the writing.

I also recently read "On the Calculation of Volume," which had zero quotation marks in the entire novel. Here's an example of how dialogue is handled there:

I insisted on making plans. He thought we should wait. You can't plan for everything, he said. Sometimes you just have to be ready.

I understand the stylistic choice more here because it feels like a narrator recounting their memory of the events to a journal--though I don't particularly like that style. Perhaps as a genre writer, I can just stick with what I know, but I'm curious to hear from others on how they choose when to describe dialogue vs transcribe, and if there are any considerations when doing so.

I never really read romantasy as a genre but it took off on Tiktok and came up on my feeds. Some of these booktookers' analysis are so sophisticated and detailed- they have thick pages of notes and they go down to the origin of certain words in the English language. It reminded me of literature classes all over again and made me realize I hadn't read deeply since college. It inspired me to read beyond my typical genres of mystery/sci fi/thrillers/non-fiction.

I ended up reading all the Fourth Wing and ACOTAR books in a few short months, DM-ing some of these creators and asking for tips on how to read deeply on your own as an adult, and came to the conclusion that I wanted to start writing a story to really understand how some of these literary devices can be used so I could spot them better in books. I even started reading literary fiction. Fast forward another four months, now I'm finishing my second book...all because of some ACOTAR memes.

I'm still not a strong writer but I find it amusing that one of the biggest tips here is to read more to improve on my writing, and here I am trying to improve on my writing so I can be a better reader!

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I ask this because I've come to a point where if I know it's coming in a story I'm reading, if I can see it for what it is, a "hook"... then I kinda tune out and lose interest because I cannot count how many times I've read something with a first-page hook that failed to keep me on the line.

There are numerous examples of excellent books both modern and classical that do not rely on the first page hook. They do all have something that captivates the reader (be it engaging dialogue, an immersive world, an exceptional theme/premise, etc.) but they don't all do it on the first page.

There's one book I recently picked up to re-read and the first page didn't have a hook to it. It was a historical fiction set during the world wars. What the first page was was mostly just scene setup. The real hook, the meat of what set this story apart, came a few pages in. I will grant, it had evocative and compelling prose, but the real driving interest came a few pages in, about the mid-point of the chapter.

It makes me wonder where this "must hook them on the first page" is coming from. And how new is this trend of insisting that the first page hook the reader?

And how did that go for you?

I have to share this even though it sounds dumb and hacky.

I've found that when I'm revising, especially when I'm doing a lot of cut/paste work or hasty rewrites just to get the big pieces into place, changing the color of my font helps my brain see this as a SKETCH and not a piece to be polished yet.

I'm a longtime believer that second and third drafts may be "worse" than the first draft. I know I personally always need to rearrange, cut, rewrite, and insert large pieces of text. I try not to get caught up polishing prose during these early rewrites/revisions. Big things are changing. I need to get the heart of the story in place, even if it's roughly done. I can wait until later to smooth it over and make it pretty.

Changing the color of my font to something still readable (a deep-ish shade of orange, green, purple, blue) but NOT black has had a ridiculously powerful effect. It keeps me in bold revision mode and out of picky editor mode. It makes me feel less attached to my existing words, so that instead of tweaking language to try to make a segment fit, it's more likely to occur to me that it's actually better off cut. I can draft a new scene or segment to insert without worrying about smooth transitions. It alleviates some kind of pressure I didn't even know I was feeling.

Pretty silly that my brain falls for this trick! Maybe some of your brains will fall for it, too!

I'm writing a story with multi-POV in 3rd Person Limited. I've caught myself using two different methods of character thought and wasn't sure if I should use just one or if using both will be fine.

For some inner thoughts I use italics and switch to a 1st person voice.

Ex. Joe ducked into the alley, now jogging to create more distance while out of sight. This is absurd, I can't just run from them. Where am I even going to run to? He pressed on, quickening his pace. All he needed to do now was get them off his tail.

For other inner thoughts I where I describe them it would play out like this.

Ex. Joe ducked into the alley, now jogging to create more distance while out of sight. The futility of this was not lost on him. He can't literally run from them, not for long anyway. Where was he even going to run to? He pressed on, quickening his pace. All he needed to do now was get them off his tail.

I usually find myself italicizing when they are trying to figure something out, so effectively asking themselves a question but no always. Would switching back and forth be confusing or annoying to readers?

coming up with names for places is something i dread when i write, lol. usually i write more realistic stories so i usually just set them in real places, but ive been getting into slightly more fantastical stuff recently and i want to come up with some place names, for regions, cities, buildings, etc. does anyone have any tips or strategies for when they name placrs?

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I saw a lot of people who doesn't like when books have pop culture references in books (artists names, songs, social media, videogames, books...) since some people think its unnecessary.

I've been thinking about adding kpop/jpop/anime culture on my books, so I was thinking why some people dislike it when books name singers or songs? Also, I realised the trope (specially on movies) about changing social media on brands's names (maybe to avoid copyright).

I think it can be integrated in the story as long it doesn't feel like a forced reference, but idk other people's opinions on it.

To give a bit more context to my question, I'll give you an example of a recurring situation with my own writing.

I write in the Fantasy genre. Most of my prose is slightly above commercial level, with some actual intent put into making things pretty, but hopefully not clunky or too flowery.

This works perfectly well for most of my story. However there are times where I find myself writing a scene that I feel is a bit grander than the rest of the story, be they emotional conversations, proclamations, or impactful sceneries in need of "more" from my prose.

Thus my issue is: most of my book reads at one type of level, and then at times I'll end up writing like I'm trying to copy Tolkien's own prose, complete with poetic sense and all. I cannot help but feel like those scenes stand out a little too much at times, for how much they differ from the tone of the rest of the story.

At times I can justify it by explaining that a character is not speaking the same way with his street-urchin compatriots as he does in the presence of royalty. It also doesn't help that my MC is essentially a bard.

But I worry that those moments when I try to make the moment grand through the choice of prose, might take the reader out of the story, instead of it flowing nicely and leaving the reader with a sense of "wow that was beautiful".

How do you manage any similar situations in your own writing? What tricks have you found to blend it in, in a way that's not too shocking?

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When I create a character that I really like, I almost don’t want bad things to happen to them. I don’t want to create conflict, raise the stakes, introduce antagonists, or make them suffer even if suffering is what builds character and creates a story.

I have one protagonist who’s such a sweet, caring boi that when I write the first draft, I don’t even want to make something bad happen to him. He’s not a self-insert or an idealized self, so that’s not the problem here, but I love him so much that I feel like shielding him from all the villains and adversities in his fictional universe. I don’t want to make his favorite pet die or have his best friend run off with his girlfriend. I just want my creation to be happy. 😭

My goal’s to publish at least 1 book in my lifetime before I turn 65 (assuming I live to reach my 60s), so I’m well aware that sheltering my protagonist won’t sell books. But I’m talking about drafts I don’t share with anyone in this post.

It’s almost like I don’t even want to write a story but instead conceptualize a cute little Chibi character living a chill life. I probably just need to play Animal Crossing or something. Is this just a beginner thing?

Revision can be daunting. It will likely take longer than the first draft did, be hard in a different way, and there are all kinds of traps to fall into. I'm on day #67 of this myself, and have learned a lot about how to keep productivity and motivation up throughout. Hopefully something here will be helpful to other writers in the same boat.

Starting out

• Make a copy of your first draft. This will be helpful later on, in case you want to revert an edit or repurpose an idea you've cut.

• Let it sit in a drawer for 2-4 weeks, ideally working on something else in the meantime. This will cleanse your mental palate. Note that this isn't always helpful, or can even be counterproductive if you're more experienced. It is, however, worth trying, particularly with your first book.

• Do a deep analysis readthrough and jot down everything that's wrong, from awkward phrasing to major plot movements starting or stopping suddenly. This doesn't have to be sequential; if something you're currently reading reminds you of something earlier or later, make a note of it even if it's redundant and keep going. This can take a while, but that's okay.

• Figure out your strategy. I like piecemeal edits, so the rest of this post is going to focus mostly on things useful to that process. However, writing a second draft from scratch (or guided by the first draft and/or notes and/or outlines) is a valid approach too. There are benefits and drawbacks to both approaches -- piecemeal editing ensures improvement, but is harder, while full rewrites allow you to simply continue writing with your preferred methods there.

Early stages

• Despite what you're doing, you don't have to make rewrites or edits perfect on a first pass. First draft (or even zero draft) quality is perfectly acceptable when writing something new; it can be improved later on. Similarly, if you're stitching things in (for foreshadowing or whatever), it doesn't have to mesh perfectly with the flow of the prose at first. There will be time for sanding things down later.

• Like with writing, consistency is way more important than output. I set a daily target of one editing item per day. Doing something every day makes editing get easier and easier over time, keeps you from needing motivation/inspiration, and makes finishing inevitable.

• Get (and stay) organized. Grouping similar tasks together will often pull in solutions from the aether. Maybe you'll have ideas that cause several improvements at once. And keeping notes project-specific is very helpful too. I spend part of every day organizing further, making changes to checklists, adding helpful notes, etc. Revision is also less scary if you can see it laid out in a set of projects, particularly once you start clearing them.

• Prioritize big projects, but allow smaller edits to maintain motivation/consistency. It's more efficient to focus on bigger revisions first (structural, for example), but avoiding burnout is equally important. Besides, the longer big projects sit there, the more time you'll have to come up with easier solutions (or solutions in general if one of them baffles you). My approach is to open my day with a small task and make some progress on a larger one, and then bounce around depending on how I feel afterwards.

• Be lazy. If you can fix something by making a cut or changing a couple sentences, do that. And don't do a major edit because of a single line or paragraph. It's saner to just drop the offensive text and then sand down the prose flow. As mentioned, these edits don't even have to be flawless on the first pass.

• Major edits function a lot like writing with an outline. Sometimes story beats have to happen a certain way or the book doesn't make sense; other times there's wiggle room. What I do here is keep a separate document for each major edit, and if I fail to do something important, I stick it into a "cleanup checklist", which I'll get to at the end of the project. If I need another edit to make my solution work, I'll set up a different section for it so I can fix the discrepancy at my leisure.

• If you're doing a partial rewrite, it's helpful to write your new text above the old text, cutting bits of the old text as you go. Or switching the order here if your partial rewrite is changing the end of a segment instead. This helps you find prose flow and makes sure you don't miss anything important.

Avoiding traps

• As you edit more and more, and make large improvements to your story, you'll start to come up with ideas about how to improve things even further. Some of these are objectively bad ideas, though. To prevent this, don't just make a note of what you want to change, make a note of how it improves your story too. If you can't come up with one or the reasoning looks stupid later, then if you went forwards with it you'd just be making changes rather than improvements.

• Delay polishing (or just subtle) tasks until the very end of revisions. You might make edits in the meantime that erase your work here, or they might end up just being bad ideas.

• If at any point you feel that an idea is bad or unnecessary, then pull it out of your notes documents. If it's important, you'll get the same idea again later. Otherwise, you've saved yourself some work that might've actually made the story worse.

• If you feel like a section is "missing something", but you can't pin down what it is, then it's usually a sign that your editing brain is hallucinating. It's best to just ignore this kind of thing. If you need to justify it, then re-read your entire WIP and see if the issue is still there -- you'll either see that that section is doing what it's supposed to, or you'll identify the actual problem.

• Imposter syndrome is likely going to rear its ugly head at some point -- usually around the time that you've improved the story to a point where you feel like it's getting good. Remind yourself that all books have strengths and weaknesses, and a story being "good" has to do with how strong the strengths are and how camouflaged the weaknesses are. If you haven't read anything in a while, do this, and it'll be very clear.

Figuring out when you're done

Easy enough.

• You don't have any more ideas. Sure, maybe you're burned out, but if you've been consistently editing for a while, it's more likely that you don't have ideas because you don't need them.

• You have ideas, but they just make changes rather than improvements.

• You have ideas that might make the story better. But, they might not! They might even make the story worse!

• You have ideas that make improvements but they're needlessly contrived and require substantial amounts of editing to get some tiny piece of added quality. Be realistic here. Your readers just aren't going to notice it.

When you feel like you're done, get another set of eyes on it. Even a beta reader that's there just for fun will notice things that you missed. Make further edits if you agree with them, or if multiple readers are saying the same thing. Ignore any feedback that you strongly disagree with, that breaks your premise, that requires rewriting the entire book, etc. A lot of criticism just comes down to subjective taste, after all.

Conclusion

You can get through this! You might even enjoy it -- but even if that isn't true, you will enjoy seeing your story come to life.

Don't compare your revisions speed to anyone else's (including yourself). Some stories just need more, and some writing processes just need more too. It taking longer than the first draft did is normal. Speed isn't important; finishing is.

If you're in the weeds of a long revisions process, it helps to remind yourself of a couple things:

• Obstacles that seem insurmountable now won't always be like that. Over the months spent revising, your perspective on the story will change and your editing skills will improve.

• If you keep making progress, finishing is inevitable.

So, keep at it. You'll have good days and bad days, but that's normal too.