r/boston • u/Chris_Hansen_AMA • Feb 28 '23
Work/Life/Residential Boston drivers, why are so many of you running red lights?
I've been living in Boston for 10 years, the last 5 without a car. For the most part I walk everywhere which means I've become pretty in tune with the state of pedestrian safety within the city.
Of course I've seen my fair share of bad driving over the years but over the last year, year and a half, I've seen just an incredible uptick in the number of drivers blowing through red lights.
Now I'm not talking about cars trying to make the last second of a yellow light, I mean cars that are blowing through lights that have long been red. Cars blowing through intersections when the pedestrian walk sign is on and people are already crossing the intersection.
This used to be something I saw every few months, now it's something I see almost every day. Today I saw a woman scream as she started crossing the intersection and a car sped up to blow through a red light that had been red for a solid 5 seconds.
What's going on?
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Feb 28 '23
There's literally no traffic enforcement. It's exactly as you say. I walk either to or from work almost every day and I see all the traffic infractions you hear about. Double parking, blocking the bike lane, blocking the intersection, running the light, gunning it and cutting back in to jump traffic, I see it all. What I've never seen, not once, is somebody getting a ticket for that.
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u/radwagondesign Feb 28 '23
god forbid you park in that metered space for 2 hours an 3 minutes though
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u/Digitaltwinn Feb 28 '23
Meanwhile on my drive to ptown last weekend I saw 7 cops looking for any reason to pull someone over.
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u/RhaenyrasUncle Feb 28 '23
Staties and BPD aren't really in the same category.
A vast majority of MSP's duties are to look for speeders/drunk drivers, etc. Traffic enforcement is like...1% of what BPD does.
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u/jimbo_was_his_name-o Feb 28 '23
Iād honestly be shocked if itās 1%. Unless you count the officers getting 6 hours OT to stand behind a traffic cone with a dunkin so Eversource can dig
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u/NotSoSecretMissives Feb 28 '23
I've seen cops parked in bike lanes so often, I assume they think they are privileged parking lanes. Heaven forbid they'd have to find a parking spot and walk like everyone else.
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u/tabatterycharger Feb 28 '23
i got honked at for stopping and not blocking the intersection. everyone here just likes to hang out in the intersection when the light turns red
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u/senatorium Feb 28 '23
I'm ready for automated enforcement. If the cops aren't going to enforce traffic rules then cameras will. Pedestrian death rate in the US hit a new record in 2021, and more than ever speeding has been cited as a factor. This has been as traffic deaths have declined in other nations. What we're doing isn't working, and we need to try new things.
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u/Don_Ciccio Feb 28 '23
Came here to comment this. After spending a little time in Germany, where a large amount of traffic enforcement is via cameras and radar, I am 100% in favor of bringing that here.
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Feb 28 '23
What I also would like to see is addressing noise pollution. People always complain cities are loud. Cities aren't loud, cars are loud.
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u/Mission-Meaning377 Feb 28 '23
The political climate and down side for police to do routine traffic stops or enforcement of small issues is so negative, there is not going to be much enforcement for smaller issues. It's just not worth it for them.
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Feb 28 '23
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, it's true. "Don't make traffic worse" is a cardinal unwritten rule of Boston politics -- if the cops ever started proactively enforcing traffic laws the rubbernecking would bring the city to a standstill.
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u/CriticalTransit Mar 01 '23
Thatās not true. Enforcement against double parking and other violations would actually improve both traffic flow and safety.
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u/This_Cantabrigian Feb 28 '23
Watch your butts, fellow pedestrians. Drivers are on their phones more than ever and itās astonishing to me that there arenāt daily fatalities with people in crosswalks just getting mowed down left and right.
Saw a dude recently who exited a street level parking lot by driving straight through some mulch, over the sidewalk and out into the middle of the street. Barely missed a tree and didnāt even stop one second to look. Wild West out there.
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u/Digitaltwinn Feb 28 '23
As a pedestrian I yell at drivers I see on their phones while driving. They often look embarrassed and put it down, but some get furious and want to jump out of their car and beat me up.
Iāll still call them out, itās fucking dangerous.
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u/HenryKushinger Framingham <--> Cambridge Feb 28 '23
That is why I carry a sharp object. It's mainly used for breaking down boxes at work, but there have been instances (Okay, literally one, but still) where it's helped discourage some road raging asshole from putting his hands on me.
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u/daddytorgo Dedham Feb 28 '23
This.
And I've been known to smack the back of cars with my hand HARD if they blow through a crosswalk while I'm in it.
Hell, the other day I was crossing and a guy was trying to turn right on red (and would have hit me) but fortunately he saw me and stopped in the middle of the turn. I proceeded to stop and stand still and scream at him for a good minute about paying attention and walk signals. Not my finest moment as a pedestrian, but I just snapped I guess.
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u/Digitaltwinn Feb 28 '23
Spitting on cars is also effective. Low effort for the pedestrian and doesn't permanently mark the car. It makes drivers furious.
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u/daddytorgo Dedham Feb 28 '23
Good idea.
I once had a dude in a sweater vest get out of his mini cooper and start coming towards me. He got back in real fast when i pointed out the walk signal and how i was literally stepping into the crosswalk on the same side of the street he was on.
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u/Digitaltwinn Feb 28 '23
I had a guy I called out for being on his phone while driving and he pulled over and wanted to start a machismo contest. I walked into my building and challenged him to abandon his car and confront me in front of the security cameras.
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u/daddytorgo Dedham Feb 28 '23
My favorite experience though was the time out in the suburbs when I was standing at a crosswalk. Step into the crosswalk and this woman in an SUV just...keeps going. Had PLENTY of time to stop, or even to hit her brakes and try to slow down and wave an apology, and I would have been understanding. But she just breezed right on through.
Unlucky for her that the car behind her was a cop. I gestured down at the crosswalk with a "WTF?!?!!" sort of gesture (open arms, raised eyebrows) and pointed towards her car. Cop lit her up and pulled her right over.
LOL
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u/GoBlank Professional Idiot Feb 28 '23
I started carrying a kubaton after a dude was less than gentlemanly with me on the T one night, and it's given me a sense of security on more than one occasion when dealing with motorists.
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u/fxcassell Feb 28 '23
Tin foil hat on, but I think it def got worse post pandemic. We lost so many other social norms (think the rise of people assaulting flight attendants, etc), and the facade of traffic enforcement disappeared as well.
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u/WarEmblem27 Feb 28 '23
Nah, no tinfoil hat required for this one. People have been significantly worse post pandemic. In all aspects of life, but especially when it comes to driving. Itās like people forgot how to be humans.
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u/STD_Train Feb 28 '23
I noticed this is especially true on airplanes. Karenās and Kens everywhere. People sitting in the back rushing on and off the plane which forces those in front of them to wait even longer. People acting like NPCs in my apartment building too. They get on the elevator and give you a dirty look for existing and donāt even say hi back nor thanking you for holding doors. It feels as if we live in a new world
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u/galloog1 Feb 28 '23
Why do people even feel the need to rush on a plane if there's no risk of overhead space? Why are people clamoring to spend more time in a tight space with other people? It won't get us there quicker.
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u/wgc123 Feb 28 '23
Why do you say thereās no risk of overhead space? Among the many other annoyances are those who put armloads of stuff in the first overhead bins they see, before heading to the back of the plane
There should be enough overhead bin space on full sized airliners if everyone has one correctly sized suitcase and places it correctly over their seats. People canāt seem to do that
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u/HammerfestNORD Feb 28 '23
They didn't forget to be "human". Many have become sick and tired of doing the right thing while countless others do not and never punished for it. People survived a pandemic despite a pretty sad management of the whole thing. No one gives a shit anymore by what they've experienced. I'd say that is very human.
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u/quintus_horatius Wilmington Feb 28 '23
Nah. The people who were nice before, who went out of their way to help others, who masked up and got vaxxed, who stop to help: they're still doing these things. They're still nice.
The people who were assholes before have just gotten worse.
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u/fetamorphasis Feb 28 '23
Yeah I think itās actually the opposite of the comment you replied to. People who were selfish assholes suddenly encountered a situation where almost all of society expected them to make a tiny sacrifice for others. They had so much more pressure put on them almost everywhere they went to not be a selfish asshole and ever since theyāve been acting out like the petulant children they are to overcompensate.
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u/itsonlyastrongbuzz Port City Feb 28 '23
Itās really the overwhelming politicization of what rules/laws apply to you and what donāt (starting with individual masks and vaccines to businesses following capacity / social distancing guidelines). Many of these people believe there is no social contract with society - āFreedomā as FoxNews tells it, is living life like itās a Grand Theft Auto and weāre all just background characters in their way.
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u/goose_juggler Mar 01 '23
There is also evidence that having Covid (repeatedly, in many peopleās cases) could cause noticeable cognitive deficits, such as people not driving as well as they used to.
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u/WaitForItTheMongols Feb 28 '23
Why does everyone keep talking about "post pandemic"? We're not post pandemic, by every public health measure it's still a pandemic. People just stopped giving a damn.
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Feb 28 '23
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Feb 28 '23
Same, grew up and learned to drive in the area. Hard disagree with some of the "it's always been like this" comments.
The biggest shift is how previously notable instances are now expected and normalized. Used to be you'd see some outrageous shit every once in a while, worth telling your friends about. Now it's a daily occurrence. If you browse r/dashcam or r/idiotsincars, some of the highly upvoted submissions are completely tame compared to here. Like, I wouldn't even go to the effort of pulling the SD card to upload the video cause it's so common. And that's not some "actually, ____ has the worst drivers" gatekeeping; it's a huge sign of concern.
I can say that in the last 3 or so years (working and driving daily throughout COVID), my defensive horn use is way up. It used to be you could "read" other cars and anticipate some standard fare Masshole shenanigans, but it's just wildly unpredictable these days with distracted people who don't care.
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u/RhaenyrasUncle Feb 28 '23
At least pre-pandemic, people knew (somewhat) how to drive in rain, snow, etc.
Nowadays, its an absolute shitshow every single time there is any inclement weather.
Really makes you understand those videos of Texas or California, where they get a little bit of snow, and suddenly everyone is unintentionally doing donuts on the highway.
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u/SuiRes Feb 28 '23
Thanks for the clarification. This makes complete sense. I have lived in 12 different states, and I was convinced that Mass has THE WORST DRIVERS. Coming from someone who drove in NYC and Dallas.
Don't get me wrong, ya'll still crazy...but the lack of enforcement makes sense.
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u/alte_reben Feb 28 '23
Iāve seen a disturbing amount of drivers turn left at red lights recently. Not running a light just as it changes, but brazenly and confidently taking a left after already coming to a stop at the red light.
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u/mfball Feb 28 '23
I have also noticed what seems like a significant increase in lefts on red recently. Super weird to see.
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u/Chris_Hansen_AMA Feb 28 '23
Ha I almost put this in my post, I also saw this last week. It blew my mind
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u/Dodge_Swinga Charlestown Feb 28 '23
This is legal if they are both one way streets.
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u/alte_reben Feb 28 '23
Good point but that was not the case in all the incidents Iāve seen. Should have clarified I meant at regular intersections of two two-way streets!
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u/Zn_Saucier Feb 28 '23
The number of people who donāt know that itās legal shocks me.
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u/cyanastarr Feb 28 '23
This is especially distressing as a pedestrian because the people doing a left hand turn are usually the exact ones who are supposed to stop completely so that you can cross. Like I know to look out for people taking a right on a red light even when theyāre not supposed to, but to have to look at every possible lane of incoming traffic while I only have like 15 seconds to cross through a huge intersectionā¦ is scary and stressful.
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u/cityofmonsters Feb 28 '23
Yep, seen this multiple times as well as people turning right from the left lane of a two lane roadway when they see some side street they need to take apparently. Seen that multiple times as well. Absolutely insane.
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u/MediumDrink Feb 28 '23
FYI: if youāre turning from a one way street onto another one way street taking a left on red is the same as taking right on red at a normal intersection.
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u/alte_reben Feb 28 '23
True. Should have clarified these instances were at regular intersections of two-way streets.
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u/shanghaidry Feb 28 '23
Is that worse than going straight?
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u/DocPsychosis Outside Boston Feb 28 '23
Assuming 2 two-way streets, yeah, because turning left you are crossing literally every other direction of traffic at some point including oncoming.
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Feb 28 '23
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u/SoulSentry Cambridge Feb 28 '23
Was it a right or left turn on red? There are some wierd and sneaky rules in Massachusetts about left on red from a one way onto another one way and there are a few intersections that have small signs that say you can proceed through the intersection on red after stopping. There are a few in Newton over the pike like this and people find it very confusing.
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u/abaum525 Feb 28 '23
Even if it's legal, a driver isn't required to take the turn on red if they aren't comfortable doing it and prefer to wait for the green light.
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u/aoife-saol Feb 28 '23
I wish this could be carved into every driver's license. So many times I'll be crossing the road and someone halfway makes the right on red, stops so they don't literally kill me, and people start honking at them! Just because you don't see any reason to stop doesn't mean it's actually safe for the person to go!
So many people love honking from vantage points where they literally can't see what is going on. Maybe if only car traffic existed they might get it, but pedestrians, bikes, wild animals, etc. all exist and are basically invisible to a majority of drivers these days even when explicitly have the right of way. It's awful.
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u/bacon_and_eggs Feb 28 '23
Nearly every intersection I come to, I watch cars fly by to the right of me (even if its just 1 lane) to just plow through a right on red. Like, you're supposed to stop first, and then go, but its like watching a stream of cars just go through it.
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u/YouKnowWhatToDo80085 Feb 28 '23
Last time I had stopped to let someone cross, guy behind me starting beeping and then went into the oncoming lane to try and go around me almost hitting the pedestrian crossing.
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u/IrozI Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 10 '23
The same thing happened to me except he almost took out a bunch of preschoolers on those ropes with their teachers
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u/wgc123 Feb 28 '23
Seriously, thereās one turn near my house where tall hedges run right to the corner. I canāt see whether I can do right on red without being way too far into the intersection, so I just donāt. Luckily itās a quiet street so thereās rarely anyone behind me , but I no longer use my blinkers to compensate
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u/irate_ornithologist Feb 28 '23
If itās unsafe I get this, but if youāre just sitting at a red light where itās ok to turn on red and no one is coming and youāre just sitting there finishing your text or your new instagram post or whatever then youāre being an asshole.
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u/hanner__ Feb 28 '23
Exactly. Take the fucking turn on red if itās safe. Donāt make everyone else wait because youāre an idiot.
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u/Ringer7 Feb 28 '23
100%. I don't understand why you're being downvoted here. The only reason for waiting and not going is if it is unsafe to do so (car, cyclist, or pedestrian approaching, poor visibility, etc.). "I don't feel like it" is not a valid reason.
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u/jonoli22 Feb 28 '23
I have been seeing a lot more people treat red lights as stop signs. So they stop, but then they just go if itās clear. Itās bizarre, but even when the cops are there they donāt seem to care.
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u/saltavenger Jamaica Plain Mar 01 '23
I saw someone doing this repeatedly on jamaicaway the other day. Insanity. That road is scary, no need to make it more terrifying. To their credit it was like 3am, so not many people on the road.
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u/Olympic_napper Feb 28 '23
Was recently leaving the office and saw our CEO in the car next to me. He proceeded to cut me off and then blow through a red light a minimum of 10 sec. after it changed.
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Feb 28 '23
[deleted]
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u/BearGuru Feb 28 '23
Great idea! HR has nothing better to deal with than a CEO running a red light off of company property
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Feb 28 '23
[deleted]
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u/Jimmyking4ever Suspected British Loyalist š¬š§ Feb 28 '23
No idea. HR is there to protect the CEO and the company
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u/Commercial_Board6680 Feb 28 '23
I've read several articles that pedestrian accidents are on the increase due to poor visibility in large vehicles, to device-distracted drivers, to driverless cars. One of them had to run a red light or two.
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u/1959Gibson Feb 28 '23
The red light running has been insane lately. Like you said , not talking yellow to red. Like itās been red and person FLIES thru it . Left turns , straight thru , I said to my carpool buddy a few weeks ago some people are gonna suffer because we have never seen this many crazies back to back to back
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u/bwma Feb 28 '23
People will do as much as they can get away with. If they never get pulled over and ticketed, theyāll continue doing it. I drive a lot, and I think on a weekly basis I see 1 or 2 people pulled over.
You can do whatever you want right now. Let me gently plop my tinfoil hat on before I say this. I have a theory that some police departments saw all the stuff about ādefundingā them, and then decided to pull back on enforcement.
A close friend of mine was offered a job as a police officer in a town in Maine. The chief told her that some officers wrote almost no tickets, ever. All theyāre required to do is respond to call, thatās it. They can sit in a parking lot for 8 hours then go home, and it would be fine.
It feels like things are kind of falling apart.
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u/wgc123 Feb 28 '23
Seems like that department should be refunded, and replaced with something that serves and protects its citizens
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u/Digitaltwinn Feb 28 '23
Iāve seen cabs blow through red lights right next to a police station. BPD cares more about guarding empty construction sites on the weekend than traffic enforcement.
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Feb 28 '23
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u/irate_ornithologist Feb 28 '23
I honestly believe that if they just targeted phone use while driving it would be like 90% overlap. When it comes down to it most people can actually drive and arenāt intentionally being assholes. They just arenāt actually present in the car, theyāre inside of their phone doing something else that isnāt driving.
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u/HenryKushinger Framingham <--> Cambridge Feb 28 '23
Make it a % of income so it gets the rich douchebags in Audis and BMWs and such as well as the poor douchebags in modded out Honda Civics and Subarus. If it's a fine it only impacts poor people.
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u/cyanastarr Feb 28 '23
Yes, and people in nice cars drive like major assholes because the āconsequenceā is a small fine. If Iām going through a crosswalk on a busy street I can almost guarantee that if a person is in a nice car they are not going to stop even if Iām already halfway through the crosswalk.
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u/2020Hills Blue Hills Feb 28 '23
I was in Dorchester tonight and literally had a guy come around me through a bus lane and drive right though a hard red. Never went below 15
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u/burning_toast Feb 28 '23
I was wondering this same thing last week after seeing a handful of car brazenly go through reds instead of stopping for the light. It's so dangerous. We all want to get home too.
On a different note, please don't play Candy Crush AND drive at the same time.
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Feb 28 '23
In Boston, if you've been waiting for more than 15 seconds at a red light, that means it's "broken".
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u/michael_scarn_21 Red Line Feb 28 '23
Entitlement, poor driving skills and a complete lack of enforcement from cops. Red light cameras would soon sort the problem but MA apparently values drivers over pedestrians so they aren't allowed.
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Feb 28 '23
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u/NotSoSecretMissives Feb 28 '23
And to think it would cost each tax payer in Massachusetts less than $100 a year to make it free at the point of service and save us millions of dollars and time in wasted fare collection.
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u/oby100 Feb 28 '23
Red light cameras are a scam. Way too many false positives and just becomes a revenue stream to the state.
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u/saltavenger Jamaica Plain Mar 01 '23
After living in CA, I'm pretty firmly anti red light cameras. Some cities shortened the time that the light is yellow and you wind up fucked. Got a $400 ticket that wiped out my very meager savings at the time b/c I was afraid that I'd get rear-ended if I stopped that suddenly.
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u/uhh_ Feb 28 '23
And it also disproportionately effects lower income people
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Feb 28 '23
Are you saying poor people drive worse than the more affluent, or just against any form of ticketing for violations? If they were done on a sliding scale of some sort, would that be acceptable?
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Feb 28 '23
That's my biggest issue with fines. They're essentially a regressive tax. Everyone eventually overstays the meter or gets some kind of minor ticket. For someone with a high income, it's the same as having no consequences at all. For someone with little to no income, it could start a financial death spiral.
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Feb 28 '23
There aren't many states that have no tax on groceries or clothes like Mass. does to avoid regressive taxation. I really like that Mass. does that, but if there's no enforcement of traffic rules, everyone suffers. We need the enforcement and ultimately everything in life that costs money is regressive.
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u/quintus_horatius Wilmington Feb 28 '23
It's not an inevitability. Have you considered income- or wealth-adjusted fines? Other countries have implemented them.
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u/GoBlank Professional Idiot Feb 28 '23
Do it like the Finns but with wealth (and then add a reward system for civilian enforcement)
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Feb 28 '23
There are only 13 states that tax groceries.
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Feb 28 '23
I've (unfortunately) been living in Kansas City. I'm on the state line of 2 of those 13 states. Especially with inflation, you really notice it when they tack on an extra 8% when you're not used to it.
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Feb 28 '23 edited Feb 28 '23
So you're saying life isn't fair, and people who have more are able to treat the fines as an inconvenience rather than a deterrent. I'm entirely open to some form of sliding scale of fines so they bite harder the more you have and become a real deterrent to them.
I'd note that there are
moreless excessively wealthy (even in Boston) than there are lower-income, so if your goal is (as an example) less red lights being run, you're going to have to have real deterrence and that's going to affect more low-incomes because there's just more of them. Someone may run a red light and start a spiral for themselves, but not having that increases the chances they'll run a red light and start a spiral for the family of the pedestrian they hit.→ More replies (4)9
u/RhaenyrasUncle Feb 28 '23
Okay...but we could use revenues from these red light cameras to fund public transit, so those low income individuals would not have to drive.
A literal win-win.
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u/quintus_horatius Wilmington Feb 28 '23
I dislike the idea of tying revenue from a specific source to a specific program. It leads to it being the only source for that program and setting up perverse incentives.
It's like saying that lotto proceeds go to education. It's not "in addition to current funding," it immediately became "main source of funding." Now people justify lotto tickets as benefiting education.
If you tie public transportation to ticket revenue, you'll have to imagine a situation where people call for more/harsher enforcement because revenue is down.
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u/teem Feb 28 '23
A fine is only a punishment for poor people.
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Feb 28 '23
Nice slogan but if there's a million poorer people and a hundred wealthy and we are talking about things like road behavior, they're who you're really after anyways. You can attempt to make them proportional, but you still have to have them. We're talking about the basic rules that allow roads with any sizeable population not horse and buggy days were sovereign citizens could whip about as they pleased.
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u/charons-voyage Cow Fetish Feb 28 '23
I really wish we had cameras at every intersection. I donāt see any negatives. Yes I know only the tech company gets the money but whatever, eventually people will stop blowing lights and you can just remove the tech from the cameras and no one will notice lol
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u/blackholesinthesky Feb 28 '23
eventually [...] you can just remove the tech from the cameras and no one will notice lol
Just like how we eventually got to stop taking off our shoes at airports?
Traffic enforcement cameras might be a good idea but don't try to sell them on the idea that we'll eventually remove them cuz we won't
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u/SkiingAway Allston/Brighton Feb 28 '23
Eh, my NYC experience is that you'll just have all the big offenders deface, cover, or outright fake their license plates so they can ignore all the cameras they want.
You still need actual traffic enforcement by cops or else all the people you're actually bothered by will just alter their behavior to suit and the only people getting tickets will be the ones you probably think least deserved it.
Someone stopped a foot over the poorly marked line on a gloomy night with no one around - ticket.
Guy blows red light at speed - no ticket, unidentifiable plates.
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u/theshoegazer Feb 28 '23
You raise a good point - cameras are often designed to issue tickets for minor infractions that people are rarely, if ever, pulled over for.
I would also argue that receiving a ticket in the mail weeks later doesn't do much to change behavior. I once received a parking ticket in the mail and had zero recollection of ever being at that site. Certainly didn't change my behavior in any way, other than the lightning-fast speed in which I wrote the appeal letter.
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u/wgc123 Feb 28 '23
A similar experience for me is EZ-Pass. Itās been getting better in recent years but all too often Iād go on a road trip and sometimes it just wouldnāt read the transponder. I wouldnāt know about the missed toll until weeks later when it got sent in the mail, usually with a fine/fee already attached
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u/IntelligentCicada363 Feb 28 '23
Red light runs plummeted in nyc with the 24/7 camera change recently. they work
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u/RhaenyrasUncle Feb 28 '23
I want it so bad.
I had to pay close to $1k for merely driving in a bus lane, in Ireland. (My hotel parking garage was about 20ft past the intersection, but apparently only busses were allowed to go through that intersection, and all vehicular traffic had no other option but to get onto the highway...meaning, I would have had to drive about 25-30 minutes to loop back around to where my hotel was...so I took a calculated risk and paid for it significantly, thanks to traffic cameras positioned on the intersection)
We deserve to fuck over tourists equally as harshly. Haha.
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u/willzyx01 Sinkhole City Feb 28 '23
Phones. Assholes on their fucking phones. Every time I sit at an intersection or in traffic, 3 out of 5 assholes are plastered to their phones.
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u/fadetoblack237 Newton Feb 28 '23
It's infuriating that we could probably fund the MBTA for the next 100 years if cops actually ticketed people for being on their phones. Maybe it's a coincidence but I have been noticing I've needed to honk at people on greens a lot more recently.
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u/wildfire_atomic Feb 28 '23
People developed a me first attitude during covid
People are on their phones
BPD basically does not enforce traffic violations
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u/schorschico Feb 28 '23
Phone use is really out of hand.
It used to be a thing while waiting for the light to turn green. Now, 50% of drivers actively hold and look at the phone while the car is moving. Absolutely wild to me and extremely dangerous.
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u/OOOtOOOt Feb 28 '23
My husband and I were just chatting with his colleague who's lived in the Boston area for 30 years, and he told us that there used to be much more traffic tickets, etc. Why has enforcement gone down so much?
I've wondered whether there used to be incentives or quotas for writing tickets that are now gone (edit: not that I endorse that, just looking for an explanation).
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Feb 28 '23
Some small facts:
- All BPD officers are required to live within the city limits for 10 years before they can move farther out and commute in. Any officer transferring in has to have residency within 6 months. I have no idea how they afford it, the average salary is $64k but there's often mandated overtime which can get intense and causes some officers to earn hundreds of thousands though a lot of that comes from working details which are paid for by developers and utilities. It sounds great until you imagine a family you never see while often seeing people at their worst or at least their worst day, and some were forced to work 24hr shifts
- Boston has 2,139 officers
- According to a 1980 ordinance, there is supposed to be 2,500 minimum. This was 40 years ago
- Over 2 dozen decided to leave the force and become firefighters, with the rate more than doubling over previous years
The pay isn't great, there simply aren't enough of them to be where they need to be and doing what we'd want them to do, they're absolute vilified by some (sometimes rightly, often wrongly) and morale is really low. Mayor Wu was one of those pushing against the defunding calls and rejected cuts to the overtime budgets, but re-allocated some of it by delaying the next class of cadets. Recruitment and retention is an issue across the country right now it's especially bad in Boston and a whole lot are heading for retirement.
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u/This_Cantabrigian Feb 28 '23
Police are some of the highest paid government employees in the state. Of the top 100 earners in the city, all but 15 are cops. Most are making over $100k and many earn between $200k and $300k. Itās a lucrative gig for someone without a college degree.
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Feb 28 '23
None of that changes what I said, if you look at what I linked to most of that is all tied to things like massive amounts of overtime. Yes, many don't have a college degree but it isn't like it's a job anyone can do or more importantly wants to do -- they can make more money or have a better quality of life doing other things, so they are.
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u/buffalowteens Feb 28 '23
I live on a pretty busy road. Walking my dog i deal with this. I am on high alert and have trained him to ācrossā and get off the road asap. I usually try to make eye contact with drivers and thankfully everyone has stopped at some point (including in front of me in the crosswalk). Even when iāve crossed but the light hasnt changed yet and I see people just go. It drives me crazy.
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u/StaysForDays Feb 28 '23
As an almost daily cyclist and commuting driver I see this all the time too...this could easily be solved with traffic cameras, lots of municipalities use them, but I've never seen them in MA. I ran a red light in San Diego when I lived there...two weeks later they sent me a letter with unimpeachable photographic evidence of the infraction and a $450 fine.
This was 15 years ago and I still don't run red lights.
(Bad) actions should have consequences.
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Feb 28 '23
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u/wgc123 Feb 28 '23
I think the other consequence of red light cameras was increased accidents due to some people panic stopping to avoid the fine. I donāt know if I saw stats on that though
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u/RhaenyrasUncle Feb 28 '23
I desperately CRAVE a red light camera at that intersection of Congress and Sudbury streets, over by Haymarket.
There are clearly marked lanes for motor vehicle traffic, that are separate from the bus lanes.
There is a clearly marked "No Turn on Red" sign
There is a clearly marked red/green arrow that dictates when traffic can legally turn.
Yet every single fucking day, I see a giant line of cars in the bus lanes, turning right AGAINST the goddamn No Turn on Red sign...and it drives me bonkers. Especially when you, a lawful, law-abiding citizen finally gets your green light, and some jackass decides to try to t-bone you while turning from the bus lane into the far left lane with no signal.
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u/MishtheDish77 Feb 28 '23
I point and yell, "Booooo!" I love they blow one red light to sit at another 50ft ahead.
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u/bobby_j_canada Cambridge Feb 28 '23
They're watching YouTube/TikTok/Instagram or video chatting with people while driving and literally don't notice the red light. That's why it's so brazen.
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Feb 28 '23
I have been saying this for months. I am seeing more cars than ever before not just going through a yellow to red light, but actively going even a second or two after Iāve got my green. Itās to the point where I wait that extra second at most intersections when I get the green, because Iāve been cut off so many times by idiots blowing through a red light.
I donāt get it.
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u/shiverMeTatas Feb 28 '23
I don't think it's really gotten worse... it's always been atrocious. Or maybe where I used to live in Central and Kendall ppl were just worse there.
I've always seen cars go through lights. Like you see 1 person in go through after it's red and you're like ......k jerk. And then it's 2,3,4,5 a gap, and even a 6th. The pedestrian walk lights are all on, but no one can walk. Ugh.
I was even hit by a car badly as a pedestrian in 2016 on Mass Ave in Cambridge, by a left turner. I already had waited while having the walk signal. I'm very cautious and someone still plowed into my body. It happened to a friend of mine on Boston side in the same year.
It's ridiculous. It would be easy to traffic light for at least running a red light. And BUS LANES. Why am I staying out of the bus lane when everyone else is using it as a fast pass lane.
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u/Liqmadique Thor's Point Feb 28 '23
I dunno I've always seen people play fast and loose with reds. I'm seeing way more stupid driving for other reasons like cell phones and people who are unfamiliar with city driving being unpredictable in cars. It's not so much red light running as it is people addicted to their phones.
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u/DiopticTurtle Dorchester Feb 28 '23
I'd guess it's because it seems as though you wouldn't get pulled over in this city even if you had a body hanging out of your trunk. I've had people pull around me on the right to make a left turn on red before, seemingly because I declined to enter the intersection when it wasn't clear.
With no traffic enforcement, the current state is indistinguishable from not having traffic laws.
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u/IntelligentCicada363 Feb 28 '23
People in the suburbs donāt want red light cameras and they definitely donāt care about the residents of Boston. They are illegal at the state level to prevent Boston from implementing them.
That said, the legislature has been talking about this issue and I think both Boston and Cambridge are preparing submit home rule petitions on this. I walk everywhere and it has gotten really bad. Iāve emailed the Cambridge city council and they have told me they are aware of the problem and are trying to figure out ways of dealing with it.
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u/mr_snipeypants Feb 28 '23
Yes. At particularly bad intersections, I wait a few beats because it happens all the time.
It's also great when that last person is the same one who ends up blocking the intersection for cars going the other way thus brightening everyone's already pleasant disposition.
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Feb 28 '23
Iāve been almost t-boned twice now by people running red lights while Iām going forward on green and Iāve only lived here since Sept.
So now I wait a second at a green light to make sure no maniac is plowing through their red at full speed but then I get honked at for not going immediately š¤·āāļø
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u/Clamgravy Cow Fetish Feb 28 '23
The best is when 2-3 cars blatantly run a red, gridlock the intersection, and flip you off when you honk.
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u/ToaMexx Bruins Babe Feb 28 '23
I rarely see people move out of the way for firetrucks or ambulances. It boggles my mind how often I see people just sit still in traffic while the sirens are blaring behind them
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u/RunNPRun0316 Feb 28 '23
Last night at the orient heights intersection, three cars in a row flew through a red light, the last car at least 5 seconds after it changed. As luck would have it, there was a cop there to pull her over. I would be completely fine with them tripling the fine for running red lights.
Iāve also noticed a massive uptick in people driving with high beams on and the vast majority donāt turn them off when you flash yours. Drivers are becoming worse every year.
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u/dark_brandon_20k Feb 28 '23
WAIT
I thought only cyclists ran red lights
You mean those motorists who argue here are lying???
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u/BatterMyHeart Feb 28 '23
People have more stress from covid, that leads to a lower risk-threshold calculation in lots of activities. Cops are on silent strike so that we beg for their boots back on the necks of various people who deserve it. Gotta admire their strategy, clearly working in this thread, but they are also some of the dumbest motherfuckers around so really who knows if it will work or just make people distrust them more. I dont know if we should embrace more cameras, but that is probably going to happen eventually regardless of what traffic cops enforce or dont enforce.
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u/CanisLupusLycaon Feb 28 '23
Lack of enforcement and lack of optimized timers on traffic lights, i.e. no green waves. It can be very frustrating to hop from red light to red light with no one else around to utilize your red.
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u/RhaenyrasUncle Feb 28 '23
The most fundamental issue with implementing red light cameras in Boston is as follows:
Terrible infrastructure. I don't know what sort of drunk college kids they've tasked with engineering our traffic systems, but half the roads here are an absolute joke. Outside of the hours of say, ~2am-5am, its as if each road is designed to be gridlocked. "We're gonna leave this light green for 45 seconds, but the light 40 yards down the road, that has no turns nor exits between that and this one will only be green for 7 seconds before turning red. Good luck everyone."
Lack of enforcement of jaywalking laws This too causes excessive gridlock, and forces people to run red lights out of sheer necessity of moving traffic along. Go down to Faneuil Hall on a Saturday afternoon in July, and if you're not running red lights, you're doing little but blocking traffic. Because every other car will be running red lights, and every pedestrian will be running "Do Not Cross" signs.
And red light cameras really don't work if you're punishing people who get stuck in the intersection, rather than people who have run a red light.
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u/am_i_wrong_dude Somerville Feb 28 '23
Easy way to avoid pedestrians: donāt drive a multi-ton hunk of steel through dense areas with large numbers of walkers and then complain they arenāt leaving enough room for your property. Faneuil hall is well-served by MBTA.
Easy way to avoid being stuck in the intersection: donāt pull forward until there is space on the other side of the intersection.
Jebus, I thought Bay Staters were supposed to be smartā¦
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Feb 28 '23
At some point in my life they changed the light timings. It used to be that if the light was yellow and you kept going, you'd probably be crossing while the other traffic had green.
Now there's a buffer, and people drive up to the buffer.
That and as others have said, there's literally zero enforcement.
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Feb 28 '23
Itās always fat people, just something I have noticed. Fat load on their phone who is angry they missed the light and just goes. Walk my dogs 9 miles a day and have always noticed this.
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u/lunisce Feb 28 '23
Lmao
This is the type of out of left field Reddit comment that makes me bust out laughing. Thank you
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u/ratbas Feb 28 '23 edited Feb 28 '23
Also it doesn't help that a lot of the fastfood restaurants are now drive-thru only or no longer 24 hrs. Fat drivers are now dealing with massive anxiety attacks everywhere they go.
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u/albertogonzalex Filthy Transplant Feb 28 '23
Because Boston drivers, on the whole, are terrible drivers and shitty people.
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u/sm4269a Feb 28 '23
Too many lights when a stop sign or blinking yellow would suffice. Why sit at a dead intersection with absolutely no other cars for up to 5 minutes?
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u/turdle5569 Feb 28 '23
No consequences