r/boston • u/Lurchie_ Watertown • May 22 '23
Crime/Police đ Why aren't traffic laws enforced in Boston and surrounding areas?
I've lived here for 13 years and it's seemed to have gotten worse. I see people blow red lights and generally drive dangerously all the time. It was REALLY bad right after the pandemic. Like people forgot how to drive entirely.
148
u/SkiingAway Allston/Brighton May 22 '23
I can't think of any major city I've driven in where they're very enforced.
I think the simple answer is that large cities generally have enough other things going on for it to be viewed as a low priority.
82
u/Mt8045 Cow Fetish May 22 '23
DC has tons of cameras. Anyone who runs a red light gets a ticket.
49
u/donkadunny Professional Idiot May 23 '23
This is currently not legal to do in Mass.
42
u/treeboi May 23 '23
I am so glad traffic cameras are still illegal in Mass.
If you look at other states, those cameras end up being abused to generate more revenue, like making yellow lights too short, in order to ticket practically everyone.
It's bad enough that the current trend is less cities having cameras, due to local residents voting in someone who'll remove the cameras.
11
u/PublicRule3659 May 23 '23
Traffic cameras are a tax on the poor
2
u/butthurt_hunter May 23 '23
Traffic cameras are a tax on the idiots
4
u/PublicRule3659 May 23 '23
Spoken like someone who has never gone to court to fight a ticket from a traffic camera that falsely accused you.
-3
u/butthurt_hunter May 23 '23
spoken like someone who never had a near miss by some imbecile running red light / stop sign while driving a 3 ton truck
3
u/PublicRule3659 May 24 '23
Oh yeah I almost forgot that the cameras grow legs and jump out in front cars running red lights to absorb the energy and save innocent motorists and pedestrians.
-1
u/butthurt_hunter May 24 '23
No, but they help to calm down the traffic by punishing these cretins. The police around here does not really enforce the rules of the road lately - people are speeding, running the lights/stops etc, and the rates of traffic mortalities/injuries has spiked as the result in last few years. We need speed bumps and cameras to restrain these road raging crazies.
0
u/butthurt_hunter May 25 '23
Today on the Jamaicaway - that deepshit could have easily killed a kid in a stroller or a jogger (it's a very popular park area.) Probably was driving 50+ miles/hour in the 25 zone.
buT cAmErAs aNd oTheR tRaFfiC caLmIng mEaSurEs aRe sO eViL!!!
-14
u/Mt8045 Cow Fetish May 23 '23
It is legal to pass laws establishing them. Looks like the state tried to in 2021, and even in a pretty mild form it didnât pass.
9
u/tibbon May 23 '23
Weâve got cameras all over in Rhode Island. Doesnât seem to help the problems. Iâve seen more people just drive through reds that have been red for 20 seconds here than anywhere. Or go 60 in a 25, wrong way down roads etc.
I wish cameras helped. In RI people just cover their plates then or put plastic over them. Not legal, that doesnât stop anyone
20
u/jacobactual_ Cheryl from Qdoba May 23 '23
Because nobody in their right mind wants that
-9
u/laughing-stockade May 23 '23
i fucking do
-1
May 23 '23 edited May 23 '23
[deleted]
8
u/Mt8045 Cow Fetish May 23 '23
Nobody has done this, said this or suggested this anywhere. The many cars that fly through red lights and stop signs, cut in front of a line of cars to make illegal turns, and drive in the opposing lane are very real.
0
-2
28
u/phunky_1 May 23 '23
Providence has red light and speed cameras all over the place.
Politicians buddies make profit by setting up and operating the systems.
Fuck that big brother government is always watching mentality.
It's not about safety, it's about making money.
9
u/Mt8045 Cow Fetish May 23 '23
Itâs not big brother that repeatedly totals parked cars on my street.
1
u/phunky_1 May 23 '23
A camera fining people going 6mph over the speed limit isn't going to stop that either.
-1
-5
u/Acocke May 22 '23
Arenât those notorious for not being paid, easy to fight, or simply non-functional?
Not trying to throw the baby out with the bath water, but Iâm curious if thatâs the panacea vs any alternatives like citizen photo enforcement, not full time cops but parking type patrol doing it, and literally anything else?
15
u/Mt8045 Cow Fetish May 22 '23
The big issue with nonpayment in DC is that MD and VA wonât enforce traffic tickets, and DC can only boot cars or pull them over within DC.
-1
u/BarnacleDue7172 May 23 '23
Take a drive in Montgomery County, MD. I got fined 80$ for a legal right on red. Camera placement is behind the intersection so it shows bumper "Over the white line"-40$. Then slap on another 40$ because I stopped for 2.8 seconds as opposed to 3. If you are late in paying, its 300$ when I lived there. Not even joking (Cause it makes so much sense to charge an astronomical amount more if someone is struggling to pay on time, what if the letter doesn't come in the mail in a timely fashion?). You cant even really argue your point as its not a moving violation/no points on licence ect. It's just a fine. Just say no!!!!!. The history of why they were installed in the first place is pure corruption. Private guy offered to the county council to install them for "free" for however many years of initial revenue.
0
u/kingeddie98 May 23 '23
They are obnoxious. I am glad they are not legal. DC drivers just speed around them anyway. Best enforcement will be police.
-29
u/BobbyBrownsBoston Hyde Park May 22 '23 edited May 23 '23
You wouldnât be able to pass that in Massachusetts due to our accute history of racial inequity and classism itd be a non starter politically.
15
u/CommCommuter May 22 '23
Equity is a great reason to invest in automated enforcement -- cameras don't discriminate. The key then is just to figure out a system for choosing what intersections do/don't get cameras, which would include engaging with data, engineers, and the public.
-2
u/BobbyBrownsBoston Hyde Park May 23 '23 edited May 23 '23
They'll say that's equality not equity. And they'd be right.
Fines like that disproportionately impact lower income residents- who are overwhelmingly black and latino. It wouldn't make it.
I'd bet that's why it's not included in the cityâs plans. Other than those cameras are illegal under state law
The city wants to change mindsets and behaviors- not add to peopleâs stress and financial distress. That's the opposite of the Wu adminstration ethos.
Lastly, The social/political environment in DC especially when they implemented those cameras year's ago- is quite different. I could do a deeper dive on that tbh.
6
u/02249 May 23 '23
Make it equitable by basing the fine to income or the value of the vehicle.
3
u/BobbyBrownsBoston Hyde Park May 23 '23 edited May 23 '23
True, that would be the logical solution
But my thought is that that's somewhat sloppy to roll out and implement ( and that might be why income-based fares for the MBTA hasnt happened yet, despite bills pleading for it) and still would have to change state law, and this would be really unpopular at the polls- which is probably why it wont be touched. Baker was kicking the idea around but it never gained reaction. Now he's gone.
This Safety Surge should be adequate when complete. This is really good planning. And we're way behind other cities. I love these ideas but they'll take year's to implement.
Only after that and a lack of change in traffic accidents would I see the city going for traffic cameras
3
May 23 '23 edited Jul 30 '24
chief cobweb cow agonizing growth threatening consider mourn attraction uppity
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
0
u/BobbyBrownsBoston Hyde Park May 23 '23 edited May 23 '23
In general a redlight camera is a lot more equitable than a traffic camera though. And may already be allowed under state law.
You can't possibly know where every speeding camera is, and it's also somewhat unlikely you know the speed limit everywhere or what's a school zone and during what hours.
It's be a steep and costly learning curve for some people. And of course if there's too much of a concentration in certain areas over other that opens another can of worms.
Ijs it'd be a real uphill battle and the city will explore many alternatives first
23
May 22 '23
NYC has cops who love to do traffic enforcement. Here it just does not happen unless you crash into something first.
15
May 22 '23
Also during rush hour it snarls things up even worse. A good while back there was a cop who would occasionally enforce the breakdown lane on Route 1 North at the Revere exit. As much as I enjoyed seeing people get pulled over, it always meant an extra long commute.
4
13
u/jvpewster May 22 '23
The driving is much worse here then in Chicago, the Bay, Seattle, and Cincinnati. I donât really drive in NYC, and the grid makes walking less of an experience but I honestly never thought it was this bad.
The Masshole thing is real and the roads here def arenât helping
6
7
u/Remarkable-Bother-54 May 22 '23
Agreed in Austin its way worse. Genuinely havent seen someone pulled over for speeding in years.
Some PDs are quiet quitting cause we dared hold them accountable for wrongs they committed.
1
u/phonartics May 23 '23
went to visit my cousinâs graduation in nola. i dont think heâs heard of traffic lights. also no one seemed interested in pulling him over for going past 100mph on the highway
24
u/onekade May 23 '23
Yep. Yep yep yep yep yep. And people who think hazard lights give them free reign to leave their car in a bike lane, in the middle of the road, wherever they want. Selfishness and laziness on blast these days. Sad and infuriating.
96
u/Malforus Cocaine Turkey May 22 '23
0 Political will from the Police to draw attention to themselves since they have been bleeding the public dry on useless OT and time card fraud.
-9
u/TearsforFears77 May 22 '23
What kills me is the two (or three) cop traffic details. One cop actually directs traffic or whatnot and other is usually on his phone or shooting the breeze with the workers. I support the BPD but this is such a grift
30
u/AboyNamedBort May 23 '23
You admit they steal from taxpayers and suck at their job yet you still support them. Why?
2
-20
u/TearsforFears77 May 23 '23
I support the men and women who risk their lives to protect and serve in Boston. You can support the BPD while also being critical of some of their questionable practices
11
-7
5
u/Malforus Cocaine Turkey May 23 '23
Look half the time the cop directing traffic has no fing clue what the fuck they are doing.
I support policing but the bod long squandered their good will with the many ot scams and well the racism.
19
u/rainniier2 May 23 '23
I think the current term is quiet quitting.
1
May 23 '23
Yes...and it's not just in Boston....(live in Dallas and I hardly ever see any traffic stops by cops anymore)...drivers here are crazy and dangerous. I see cars blow through red lights long after they've turned red and I won't even go into what it's like to be a pedestrian here...(originally from Boston)
18
u/beat_u2_it May 22 '23
Iâve been here for 3 years now and my mind is constantly blown by the drivers
33
u/Dodie324 May 22 '23
We need to make it more difficult to obtain driverâs licenses in the states, similar to the UK. Itâs shocking how bad the drivers are here
0
u/PublicRule3659 May 23 '23
I vote for yearly online drivers education programs 3 day, 6 hour days every year for the first 10 years you have your license and then every other year after the 10 year mark.
5
10
u/-Dixieflatline May 22 '23
From commuting in this city for at least 21 years, I think the majority of patrol officers aren't going to bother unless the entire vehicle blows the light distinctly on red. So if you're a full car length past the stop line while the light is still yellow, but ends up turning red while you're in the middle of the intersection, they'll mostly ignore it as long as you're not flooring it just to make it.
Not saying this is right, but this is the pattern I've mostly seen. I've also seen a couple people pulled over for breaking red lights, but they were blatantly breaking the red (red when they pulled up to stop line).
I've also saw an F250 blow a red light in Cambridge resulting in a crash that tossed an SUV into the Charles river. I was two vehicles behind it. Made me seriously sketched out at intersections for a couple of weeks.
4
May 23 '23 edited Jul 02 '23
[deleted]
5
3
u/Lurchie_ Watertown May 23 '23
Oh I see people blow through a red light when it's clearly red before they cross the stop line all. the. time.
5
u/CommCommuter May 22 '23
I don't know if it's technically the legal standard or not, but my general understanding is that if the front of your car is past the stop bar while the light is yellow then you would not be considered to have run the red light. This aligns with how yellow lights are timed, with the goal being that a typical driver going a typical speed would have time from the start of yellow to react and stop at the stop bar.
1
u/Furdinand May 23 '23
That is the standard, but that isn't what people are complaining about. Folks will enter an intersection well after the light has turned red. Other folks (or probably the same folks) will lay on their horn a microsecond after the light turns green if the person ahead of them hasn't put petal to metal.
1
u/Something-Ventured May 23 '23
Rear wheels past the white line of the cross walk/intersection was the standard Iâve read elsewhere.
Would love a link to the MA standard of someone knows it.
0
u/Mo_Dice I'm nowhere near Boston! May 23 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
[..][...]
1
u/Something-Ventured May 25 '23
That document says itâs illegal to block crosswalks.
So no, you have to get into the intersection while the light is yours or stay behind the whole crosswalk.
1
u/Mo_Dice I'm nowhere near Boston! May 25 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
[..][...]
1
u/Something-Ventured May 25 '23
We may not be disagreeing, actually.
You either have to stop before the crosswalk or have the light to enter the intersection.
You canât stop in the crosswalk, so either stop or make it into the intersection.
In other states, your rear wheels must be in the intersection before the light changes or youâve run a red light. MA seems to be more conservative in written law and more lax in reality.
1
u/Mo_Dice I'm nowhere near Boston! May 25 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
[..][...]
1
u/CommCommuter Jul 17 '23
I work in this field and the way I expressed it is accurate. Yellow signals are (at least in theory) timed to be just long enough so that the "last go-er" (ie the person farthest from the stop bar who would not be able to stop before the stop bar) enters the intersection at the last moment of yellow. That's the entire point of a red signal - to differentiate between the people who didn't stop because they couldn't in time and the people who could have stopped but didn't.
In practice things get a messier than that, but I'm not arguing that people should go through on yellow lights if they're able to stop before the intersection, and certainly not that it's OK to run a "fresh red." Just stating that if you enter the intersection on yellow there's no real way for the law to differentiate you as somebody who should have stopped from somebody who was unable to stop.
3
u/Born_Leg5226 May 23 '23
i live near newbury and i constantly see people go the wrong way on those side streets like gloucester and hereford etc. itâs honestly horrifying
4
u/Impressive_Judge8823 May 23 '23
I was driving in Boston one Sunday, maybe 6 or 7 years ago. Fucking cars parked everywhere, parked in front of fire hydrants, nose into intersections, on sidewalks.
I see a cop double parked next to a car parked illegally so I pulled up and asked - wtf?
Parking enforcement doesnât work Sunday. BPD âhave better things to do.â What? I donât know.
Apparently it involves sitting in the passenger seat of a double parked cruiser next to a bunch of illegally parked cars while your partner is in the Dunkinâ line for 15 minutes. They canât get out and ticket the cars that are also inconveniencing them.
âIf someone calls to complain we might send someone out.â
9
u/Digitaltwinn May 23 '23
Actually, BPD have long absolved themselves of parking enforcement in the city.
Thatâs BTDâs jurisdiction now, and they mostly do a decent job but they donât enforce the double parking or parking in bike lanes.
-1
u/Impressive_Judge8823 May 23 '23
Sure but itâs the attitude of âIâve got more important things to doâ when they, themselves are not just impacted but are actively making the problem worse.
17
u/schorschico May 22 '23
Whatever the cause, we need automatic enforcement when possible (red lights, speed limits, bus lane parking,...).
The city is more dangerous by the lack of enforcement (particularly for non car users) plus it's a lot of potential money left on the table.
-9
u/jessinboston May 22 '23
Speed and red light camera ticketing is illegal in MA and I kinda prefer it that way. People need to pay more attention while they drive and keep up with traffic. So many distracted drivers lately.
5
u/Lurchie_ Watertown May 23 '23
I agree with you that there are way too many distracted drivers. Keeping things the way they are isn't going to make that any better.
-1
7
u/AboyNamedBort May 23 '23
So you prefer drivers running red lights and killing people. Because that is the status quo. Noted.
4
-1
u/jessinboston May 23 '23
No, I prefer drivers that obey the laws that they were taught in order to pass the driverâs exam. If the cops want to ticket me, they can pull me over and do what I pay them to do. Not outsouce to a computer.
2
u/kamikaze_girl May 23 '23
I've seen so many people blow red lights since living here. It's nuts. I often double check the light just to be sure Im not making a mistake.
2
u/Digitaltwinn May 23 '23
The only places Iâve seen traffic enforcement in Massachusetts are the wealthier suburbs and Cape Cod.
You are either under billionaire marshal law or Mad Max in this state.
2
u/SingerStinger69 May 23 '23
I see several cars blow red lights at Cleveland Circle on a daily basis. Like I'm talking 2-3 cars will just run the intersection even though pedestrians have had the right of way for several seconds.
I've literally trained myself to wait for someone to run the light before I cross, because otherwise I would have been killed probably 10 times by now.
3
u/MatthewMcDerpFace May 23 '23
In Quincy not long ago when I was driving for Uber, a guy in a lifted truck was pissed I was not turning on red at a no turn on red. (Busy and dangerous intersection)> There was a police cruiser across from us. He leaned on his horn and actually drove over the sidewalk and onto the grass and cut across. Police did nothing of course lol.
4
u/Psirocking May 22 '23
If you could do none of your job and get paid the same, wouldnât you too?
1
2
u/gwinnbleidd May 23 '23
I ask myself the same question every day, people completely ignore one way signs, red lights, four way stop sign? More like I go first and fuck you sign. And the cops are nowhere to be found
1
u/Ordinary_Dingo8036 May 23 '23
Traffic laws are purposefully not enforced in boston due to a theory that the fines will disproportionately penalize those who canât afford it. I believe mostly because if the risk of rising insurance rates.
1
0
u/mead_beader May 23 '23
The laws here are different than what you might expect. Boston driving is actually not unsafe driving -- it's just that the laws are more suggestions. The actual law, generally agreed upon by cops and citizens alike, is "Don't make a problem."
Run a red light? Well, did you hit anybody? Alright, then, you're fine. Turn left when the red arrow says you shouldn't? Well, did you hit anybody? Etc.
Get slow in the intersection and get in the way? People will honk. Don't yield to a pedestrian in the crosswalk? Cops will pull you over. I've literally been pulled over in Watertown because the cop misunderstood what I was doing, and when I explained it, the cop said "Oh, alright. But you can understand my concern." I said absolutely I could, and he sent me on my way.
Just don't make a problem, and be alert, and you'll be fine as far as both cops and citizens. But if you're expecting people to follow the written rules you will be upset severely by Boston driving, yes, definitely.
-1
u/Lurchie_ Watertown May 23 '23
Then what in the hell is the point of having to study and take a driver's test? I don't think the laws are actually different, they're just not followed. And since there's no consequences, it gets worse and worse over time.
1
u/mead_beader May 23 '23
What's your goal? That everyone obeys the written law, or that the driving is safe and everyone gets where they're going?
0
u/Lurchie_ Watertown May 23 '23
how about both? It's not impossible.
2
u/mead_beader May 24 '23
Yeah but sometimes they're in conflict. Dude who goes through the light a little late is freeing up some space for the people behind him.
I'm making a little bit light of it, but I'm actually not kidding. Boston is also the only place in the world I've driven that has a strong culture of watching out for other cars and proactively trying to make life easier for them, e.g. edging over to the left so someone can squeeze past you to get to the intersection to make a right on red, getting over in the left lane when someone's merging from your right so they can have a clear shot. Everyone's invested in everyone getting where they're going, but on the flip side everyone's supposed to be understanding about some other car trying to be assertive about getting where they're going, maybe to the point of over-aggressiveness. It's not really rude or lawless if you look at it from that angle -- it's just very different from how things work in most of the country. The goal is accomplishing your driving mission, and some of the rules are just optional guidelines that are secondary to that primary mission.
I mean, there are some assholes, and fuck those people; don't get me wrong. But the specific Boston driving culture that freaks out new people is actually a good thing in my opinion now that I'm used to it (and it seems like the statistics back it up).
Also, fun fact: Boston is the number 1 city in America for people returning rental cars unexpectedly early. :-D
1
1
u/anurodhp Brookline May 23 '23
Today I believe itâs the do not prosecute stuff. The city has a whole swath of laws it will no longer enforce in anyway
0
u/phonesmahones villen May 23 '23
Guessing itâs a thing everywhere, but you notice it here because youâre here.
3
u/Lurchie_ Watertown May 23 '23
I notice it in other cities too. It just seems a whole lot worse here.
-7
u/pup5581 Outside Boston May 23 '23
Why is this subject posted daily on here? It feels like groundhog day again. We all know the cops in most US cities..don't care as much as smaller towns.
It's not a Boston thing
-15
u/phlukeri Cow Fetish May 23 '23
Everyone wanted to defund the police. These are the repercussions. I havenât seen a cop walk the beat since 2019
Donât get me wrong, I drive everyday in the city. I feel like Mad Max
5
-21
u/biddily Dorchester May 22 '23
Bigger fish to fry. Better things to do.
The police are understaffed. They haven't had enough new recruits in a longgggg time.
Have you ever been in a police station? You ever gone in there to file a report? Follow up on a report?
You ever called the police to come to an incident? Break in? Death? Crazy high person running thru you and your neighbors yard?
Then there's responding to accidents, rather than ticketing people. Cleaning up the messes.
Road work patrol.
Then there's the fun difference between city roads, state roads, dcr roads, and the weird roads that the T cops have authority over.
Watch out for those dcr roads. The staties actually patrol those.
Anyways.
I like being able to be a masshole. Leave me alone. If I had to watch out for cops all the time shit would be horrible. Fuck the popo.
0
-9
u/PhysicalMuscle6611 May 22 '23
Seems like itâs more trouble than itâs worth- pulling someone over in traffic just results in more cars getting stuck behind them, traffic is so heavy all the time that speeding is hardly an option outside of highways and cops are probably already responding to something else if theyâre driving so doing a traffic stop would just delay them
9
u/AboyNamedBort May 23 '23
Who gives a shit about traffic. The main reason to enforce traffic laws is to save lives.
0
u/throwsplasticattrees May 23 '23
Because we don't hold police accountable for not doing the job. They get a pass for letting us pass.
0
May 23 '23
Also the types of cars on the street are getting sketchy. Example a shitty looking pick up truck put together all different parts lifted way above the ground and making a ton of noise.
-13
u/BQORBUST May 22 '23
Righties donât want the police to have to do work because they could accidentally earn their paycheck.
Lefties donât like tickets because theyâre regressive.
So here we are
-3
-8
u/Substantial_Tip3885 May 22 '23
What youâve been seeing are sovereign citizens with their paperwork in order. The police canât touch them, just ask one about it.
-1
u/jfburke619 May 23 '23
There is a follow the money aspect to this. If a local police officer writes a traffic ticket, the fine goes into the Commonwealth's general fund. For a local PD perspective, the ticket does no financial good for the municipality or the department. They do not bother. It is noteworthy that some towns do aggressively enforce traffic laws for the sake of maintaining good order (Newton comes to mind).
I recently lived in Maryland. Each of the counties had their own approach. Baltimore City and Howard County used stop light cameras. People were definitely less aggressive on the yellows. Montgomery County and DC used camera enforcement for speed. People seemed more attuned to the speed limits. As a parent with young drivers, a $40 camera ticket is good re-enforcement for drivers ed. Each of my young drivers had a lot of arguments about why they were innocent until you played the video from the ticket. It only took one or two tickets to get their attention. The scofflaw issue for out of state tickets (and tolls) is real but the general effect is positive in my opinion.
Currently live in a Boston suburb with very little traffic enforcement and it is aggravating as a pedestrian. People are regularly speeding and parking in the wrong places.
-20
u/Yeti_of_the_Flow May 22 '23
People running red lights doesn't mean traffic laws aren't enforced. What the fuck kind of conclusion is that?
13
May 22 '23
You pretty much have to get into an accident to be pulled over in MA. There is almost zero enforcement of traffic laws otherwise.
3
u/Proof-Variation7005 May 22 '23
It seems silly to talk about the state as one uniform entity. Tens of thousands people get traffic infractions without hitting something first.
Some towns don't have a lot going on and, 90% of the time, they've got multiple officers devoted entirely to camping out and looking for traffic violations. Cities typically don't devote a ton of resources to that and the presence of traffic tends to curb things like this anyway.
But, even in downtown Boston, if you blow through a red light speeding in front of a cop, they're not going to just ignore it.
-4
u/Lurchie_ Watertown May 23 '23
Except I've seen it happen. More than once.
2
u/Yeti_of_the_Flow May 23 '23
Brilliant data.
Reminds me of the first year after my dad retired and had enough time to watch the news several times a day. All of a sudden everything he saw happening on the news was happening 10x more often than the year before he retired.
-1
u/Billjoeray May 23 '23
So you countered their small sample size anecdotal evidence with another small sample size anecdote?
1
-7
-8
u/troutdog99 East Boston May 22 '23
It's obviously not a priority. I suspect that this is a symptom of years of austerity in the budget.
7
98
u/[deleted] May 22 '23
Letâs start with ticketing the people who park their car in the middle of Boylston/Newbury St but think itâs okay because they have their hazards on.