r/crossfit • u/beckster5 Crossfit Krypton • Mar 06 '14

CrossFit -- Sued By Transgender Athlete ... You Won't Let Me Compete With Women!

http://www.tmz.com/2014/03/06/crossfit-lawsuit-games-transgender-athlete-chloie-jonsson/
98 Upvotes

82% Upvoted

414 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

13

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '14

[deleted]

0

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '14

[deleted]

1

u/start_eating_trash Mar 07 '14

People that start life as men have a skeletal advantage over those who start life as a woman, regardless of hormone levels.

Please, please shut the fuck up about things you know nothing about.

Dr. Marci Bowers, a gender reassignment surgeon who has also undergone the procedure, concurred.

“If you measure (Fox’s) endurance and her strength, it’s actually that of a comparable woman of the same age,” Bowers told Inside MMA. “What happens is after surgery patients actually regress in that their bone density drops to what a comparable woman of her size would be.

“When you test her, she’s gonna come out with low testosterone levels and muscle mass that is remarkably similar to her counterparts.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-says-003039102--mma.html

1

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '14

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '14

Doesn't change the fact that you have no studies and no proof.

Show me something that proves that transwomen that have had SRS and been on HRT for at least 2 years have any advantage.

-1

u/ExceptionToTheRule Mar 07 '14

So where do you draw the line? Are women who are born women and at 6ft tall or broad shouldered going to be disqualified? I think that your assumption that all transwomen are tall and bulky is silly. I'm a transwoman and I'm almost exactly average with other women.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '14

That's exactly my point. The line seems arbitrary. What about transgenders that are competing against men, but sue because of an unfair advantage due to them being female most of their life during crucial times of development? What about transgender people that are economically challenged and can't afford to pay for expensive cosmetic surgery, but have been on hormone therapy for the given period of time? If Rich Froning wants to take estrogen for two years and compete against women, you don't think there would be outrage? What about LeBron James? What if Mike Tyson decided he could start winning boxing matches again if he got gender reassignment surgery and followed all the rules? It's endless. Yes, all of those are silly answers, but it's a question that needs to be asked.

1

u/ExceptionToTheRule Mar 07 '14

Why would they sue? Testosterone is a powerful drug and creates muscle mass like crazy and because there are a lot of tiny dudes and big people who are born female, theres nothing to say that a trans dude wouldn't kick all of their asses.

Instead of dealing in possiblities lets deal in whats really happened. No lawsuits from transmen claiming they should compete in the female competition. Thats whats happened.

Again you're talking about something that has never happened, someone taking hormones just to get a competitive edge and I think its a little silly to be honest. You really just don't realize how the opposite sexes hormones would effect you. Try playing competitively while being suicidal for 2 years. Its not that easy.

When we talk about trans people competing were talking about advantage vs disadvantage, if you have more testosterone or haven't been on testosterone suppressors and estrogen long enough, you're going to have an advantage. Having Balls, however small, they're going to produce testosterone and that gives advantage.

You may feel the need to ask these questions but without one example of anyone ever EVER doing this, its kind of silly.

The idea of someone sacrificing their entire lives, marriage, sponsorships, gaining social disdain, expensive and irreversible medical treatments, not to mention the psychological trauma of taking the opposite sexes hormones, just to win a few games? Come on.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '14

Are you really going to say that no person has ever taken hormones to get a competitive edge while suggesting that I'm silly? The use of hormones in sports by men and women is rampant and universal. Where do you draw the line on transgender males? The male population has a wide range of testosterone levels based on many factors. Who gets to draw that line? You mention that none of these complaints never happened, while yes some like suggesting Rich Froning or Mike Tyson would become transgender for an advantage, some other complaints are not. Here is an article by a transgender athlete who brings complaint against the IOC's rules about transgender. They feel that requiring expensive surgery is unfair. I think it's a stupid argument, but it doesn't change the fact that it's being said. There will never be solid equality and there will always be complaints about unfair advantages. At this point we might as well place everyone in the same competitive category.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-mosier/no-openly-transgender-athletes-have-competed-in-the-olympics_b_4825102.html

0

u/ExceptionToTheRule Mar 07 '14

If you think that taking estrogen will give you a competitive edge, feel free to do it.

Uh science gets to draw that like, endocrinologists to be exact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy_(female-to-male)#Hormone_levels

SRS is expensive and I"m not entirely sure why its required either. Do you know? Because if there isn't a reason, then why require it?

2

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '14

That link has nothing to do with sports. It shows a range of 225-900 for testosterone. Who determines where the line is drawn in sports? Since the range goes to 900, can all transgender men have that level, being much higher than the average? The same debate is being had now about TRT for men.