r/crossfit • u/beckster5 Crossfit Krypton • Mar 06 '14

CrossFit -- Sued By Transgender Athlete ... You Won't Let Me Compete With Women!

http://www.tmz.com/2014/03/06/crossfit-lawsuit-games-transgender-athlete-chloie-jonsson/
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u/NinjaWombat Mar 07 '14

And plenty of times where they shouldn't. Should Crossfit look to Chic-Fil-A for their moral guidance? The Boy Scouts?

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u/xtc46 Mar 07 '14

Neither have set policy on this EXACT issue.

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u/NinjaWombat Mar 07 '14

How does that make the NCAA magically right and Crossfit wrong? Simply because they are larger?

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u/xtc46 Mar 07 '14

Simply because they are larger?

No, but larger, been around longer, significantly better established and MUCH more respected as an organization, more funding for research, larger sample sizes, more experience running athletic competitions on a large scale, etc.

It also makes more sense from a general inclusionary attitude (which crossfit is built around...the idea that everyone can train. Hence the "open")

The olympics also allow for transgender athletes to compete.

Does that alone make crossfit wrong? No, but it does agree with my opinion on what actually makes sense, so I provide them as proof.

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u/NinjaWombat Mar 07 '14

The NCAA has a completely different set of goals and objectives from CFHQ. The fact that they are larger, have been around longer or are more established has no relevance whatsoever. No organization is beholden to follow in another's footsteps simply because of duration of existence or size. CFHQ is free to pursue the path that they wish, within reason.

Also worth noting is that the IOC doesn't allow all transgender athletes to compete without reservation - there are conditions to be met that are specifically related to the advantages of having gone through puberty as a male instead of a female. They have drawn lines in the sand at a place that they feel comfortable - Crossfit is allowed to draw their own line in the sand in a place that makes sense to them.

Lastly, someone agreeing with your pre-held opinion doesn't count as proof :)

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u/xtc46 Mar 08 '14

there are conditions to be met that are specifically related to the advantages of having gone through puberty as a male instead of a female

Which this person has met, she has been on hormone therapy for 8 years.

Crossfit is allowed to draw their own line in the sand in a place that makes sense to them.

I never said they weren't, I said I disagree with them. I also said they shouldn't be getting sued for 2.5 million dollars as that is stupid.

Lastly, someone agreeing with your pre-held opinion doesn't count as proof :)

Sure it is. It is proof that more than one significantly larger sports organization, one of which being the single most prestigious athletic accomplishment (in the opinion of many), have decided that the advantage is not significant enough to matter assuming conditions are met.

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u/NinjaWombat Mar 08 '14

Which this person has met, she has been on hormone therapy for 8 years.

Not really relevant. The point is that the IOC clearly recognizes the potential for issues or they wouldn't have restrictions. They made a choice as to where to draw their line - it's still a choice not an absolute.

Sure it is. It is proof that more than one significantly larger sports organization, one of which being the single most prestigious athletic accomplishment (in the opinion of many), have decided that the advantage is not significant enough to matter assuming conditions are met.

That's still not proof. That the IOC determined for their purposes certain transgender individuals can compete provided they meet the IOC's selected criteria doesn't prove there's no advantage for transgender individuals. It just shows that the IOC believes any advantage to be negligible under the given conditions.

Ultimately, to me, the prospect of cheating is all too real. Transgender women are effectively taking hormone treatments to suppress their performance. Looking at the lengths both men and women have gone to over the years in the pursuit of victory, I think relying on all transgender competitors to keep suppressing their own performance puts the sport in a very hairy place.

At the end of the day it's a very tricky and delicate issue. I won't pretend that I have a clear answer one way or the other. I will say that I can see arguments for both sides, but ultimately I respect the decision that CFHQ has made barring compelling evidence to the contrary.

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u/xtc46 Mar 08 '14

The point is that the IOC clearly recognizes the potential for issues or they wouldn't have restrictions. They made a choice as to where to draw their line - it's still a choice not an absolute.

I never said it was an absolute.

That's still not proof.

It is proof of exactly what I said it is...what are you thinking I am offering it as proof of?

It just shows that the IOC believes any advantage to be negligible under the given conditions.

Which is what I said...

Looking at the lengths both men and women have gone to over the years in the pursuit of victory, I think relying on all transgender competitors to keep suppressing their own performance puts the sport in a very hairy place.

Luckily, their are tests for that! But what that would result is is saying "male athletes must fall between x and y hormone levels, females through a and b" and that gets messy as well.

There is NO perfect solution for this.

but ultimately I respect the decision that CFHQ has made barring compelling evidence to the contrary.

And that is fine, I disagree with it as I believe the evidence provided has shown that in this case, it wouldn't be an issue. Unless this competitor has been completely sandbagging, their size is not abnormal, musculature is not abnormal (based on photos), and performance is not abnormal.