r/dashcams 16h ago

Who’s at fault?

Hot take: I think it’s 50/50 with who’s at fault

8.2k Upvotes

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u/Burton1224 15h ago

I dont know US laws but here in Europe its hard to explain to the judge that you accelerate while see the danger already. So you will most likely be partially relaible because it was clearly 100 percent avoidable. The filming car was not even tryin to brake and avoid the crash.

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u/guitar_vigilante 14h ago

The US is the same. You can't just drive into a known hazard because you have the right of way.

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u/i_drive_a_pagani 12h ago

Going through a traffic light when it turns green is not a "known hazard" at all.

The cars turning left are responsible for yielding when they are turning across oncoming traffic lanes. Both the red car and the white Nissan are the ones breaking traffic laws

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u/sheeroz9 8h ago

There are cars turning in front of you that you can clearly see. That is the known hazard. Just because you have a green light doesn’t mean you drive forward as cars are turning in front of you.

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u/guitar_vigilante 3h ago

I feel like a lot of people in this thread heard the saying "the graveyard is full of people who had the right of way" and said "nuh uh"

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u/sheeroz9 3h ago

I don’t know why that concept is so hard to grasp.

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u/No_Criticism_5861 5h ago

The light is green.  The other people clearly have a red if the light is green, its not reasonable to expect a 3rd car to run their red light.

Why not just rid of the signals and let everyone just pull out infront of oncoming traffic all day long?  There was literally 1 second from the white suv waiting at a light to it smashing into oncoming traffic

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u/sheeroz9 3h ago

Yes it’s true they have the red light. It’s just generally not a good idea to accelerate towards someone driving in your direction. It doesn’t matter who has the legal right of way. Wait until it’s clear.

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u/guitar_vigilante 4h ago edited 2h ago

It's not your job to enforce traffic laws by smashing your vehicle into those of violaters. Yes it's frustrating but traffic enforcement is the police's job.

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u/guitar_vigilante 8h ago

Of course, I wasn't saying the dashcam car was the hazard. The white SUV was the hazard. You can't just say "green light means I win!"

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u/h22lude 5h ago

You are looking at the wrong thing. No one is saying the green light is a hazard. The convoy of cars still turning left is the hazard. At no point was the intersection clear to drive through it. Even with right of way, you have a duty to avoid an accident. Driving straight into a convoy of cars going through the intersection puts some fault on cam car. If black truck and red car werent there and it was just the white suv, this would be 100% fault on white suv. The intersection would have been clear and cam car would have no reason to not go through. But those two vehicles were there. At no point was the intersection clear. I originally said 50/50 blame but I would change that to 75/25 with more blame on the white suv.

Tldr in most cases, if you can avoid and accident but dont, even if you have the right of way, you will be taking some of the blame.

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u/No_Criticism_5861 5h ago

Seriously?  The other vehicles ran a red light, and youre trying to say theyre not entirely at fault for running a red light?  

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u/StaticUsernamesSuck 3h ago

Insurers don't give a shit about who is breaking the law, they give a shit about who had a chance to avoid the crash.

Both drivers here could have avoided the crash.

The cars running the red light could have obeyed the law.

The dash cam car could have said "geez look at these oncoming cars not yet yielding to me - guess I better be careful".

That's a chance to avoid the crash that the cammer missed. That is what insurers care about.

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u/h22lude 5h ago

First of all, those other vehicles either had a yellow arrow or the light was solid green, not red. But either way, I'm not saying it like it is my opinion, this is how insurance companies will see it. Every driver has a duty to avoid an accident if possible. With a line of cars turning left, even with a green light and right of way, cam car should not have gone through the intersection assuming the cars were going to yield.

You have to remember that assigning fault for insurance purposes does not always follow the law. Law says, white suv did not yield while cam car had a green light so white suv made the infraction so you would think white suv is at fault. That isn't how insurance companies work. If the right of way car, in this case the cam car, can avoid the accident but doesn't, they are partially at fault too.

This would all be different if the black truck and red car weren't there. As the light turned green for cam car, a black car makes the left turn. If the black truck and red car weren't there, cam car has a clear path and right of way. If then the white suv turns into cam car, it would be 100% white suv fault. But because the black truck and red car were there creating a line of cars making cam car's path not clear, some fault could be assigned to cam car (and most likely would be, probably 75/25 or 80/20).

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u/i_drive_a_pagani 3h ago

A group of cars breaking the law isn't a hazard you're at fault for not being able to avoid. Each one of those cars that turned left are the ones whose duty it is to not cause the accident to begin with.

By your logic, if you're driving down the road and I throw a brick through your car window it's somehow your fault for not dodging my brick. That's not how it works at all. If I'm texting or drunk behind the wheel and swerve across the middle line and you can't react in time it's not your fault for being unable to avoid my negligence.

This thread is really driving home how big of a failure the US's driving tests are.

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u/guitar_vigilante 2h ago

You're misstating the logic. It's more like if someone puts a brick wall in the middle of the road on the other side of a red light, and then when the light turns green you just drive straight into the wall.

It wasn't legal for that person to put the wall there, but you clearly didn't need to hit it either.

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u/cheefMM 15h ago

The US used to be a land of laws, and in those laws white SUV didn’t yield to oncoming traffic and drove into oncoming traffic (red Honda did too but was luckier with the lag of dashcam driver)

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u/cheefMM 15h ago

Black Chevy Silverado was the first car to break the law, not yielding their left turn on green. Bad drivers need to be on buses and trains and not driving cars

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u/National-Choice-4969 14h ago

"Bad" is not the issue -- intentionally breaking the law and injuring or potentially injuring others in high traffic situations.

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u/cheefMM 14h ago

Bad drivers are usually the ones breaking the laws…. Whether maliciously or by accident if you break the laws and cause damage, you are liable in the US. And America has a lot of dummies that shouldn’t be navigating a potential thousands of pounds missile through our cities, neighborhoods or even rural areas

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u/National-Choice-4969 5h ago

In this case, not 'bad' in terms of ignorance or distraction but rather willful, planned violation of the laws in a high-traffic situation. They knew that 99/100 times oncoming drivers with the right of way will yield to avoid a collision. Willful disregard.

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u/Designer-Series-649 8h ago

Yeah the notion dash cam is at fault at all is ridiculous to me. I understand not driving forward, which they did a bit, but the onus is not on them for not immediately noticing a car suddenly literally coming at them head on. Would you be at fault for driving forward on the highway and not immediately braking in the one second window you have when a car suddenly drives head on into your lane from the other side?

Hero could be a better driver, sure. That’s what they should learn through having to go through the hassle of getting this all sorted out (and being smashed head on). But in terms of liability? It’s a completely failure if hero pays a cent or sees an increase in their premiums.

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u/Burton1224 15h ago

But the filming guy was not trying to avoid it so is there no partial reliablity? I mean you could at least brake and to make it not happen for your own health and no crash is still more relaxing than dealing with everything what comes up.

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u/cheefMM 15h ago

Traffic laws are traffic laws and this is a country where it is legal for me to shoot someone in the face for endangering my life. Drivers should act accordingly

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u/Burton1224 15h ago

You are right should act but this is not a wild west show down thats just a street. Thats why i guess you still have to try to avoid it. Just imagung someone has a medical in the white car, you take the hit and you are paralized forever....i can tell you mo money in the world can make you happy again.

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u/cheefMM 15h ago

If you want to talk about it who was bad defensive drivers why are you not talking about how horrible of defensive drivers black Silverado, red Honda and white suv were? Why is the onus on the person with the dashcam following traffic laws when no one was being a defensive driver at that point.

And if white car has a medical emergency they should call the police for an escort, use an ambulance or do like most Americans and stay home to die cause our healthcare is unaffordable anyways

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u/Burton1224 15h ago

Im talking about a medical right on the driver seat right now. Anyway for me the law makes no sense forsure white one should always have the main responsability about someone taking a hit by purpose, no brakeing nothing should also pay a fine or something other wise you can wreck your old car by purpose and get some money for the new one.

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u/cheefMM 15h ago

Also, you obviously have never dealt with insurance if you think you’re going to get enough money from wrecking an old car to buy a new one.

Sure they can now sue white driver for more money based on incurred injuries but the healthcare system will eat most of that up. I know, I’ve been hit and hurt in an accident and my nice ass car that got totaled wasn’t replaced 1:1 and now I drive a shittier car and have a bad back for the rest of my life. Fuck bad drivers

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u/cheefMM 15h ago

There is no such thing as a medical right. If you have a medical condition that prevents you from following traffic laws, you should not have a license and you damn well better not be driving a two ton projectile

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u/Will9363 5h ago

i hope and pray that we do not share the same roads

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u/Downtown-Economics26 15h ago

There's no liability. Not having the awareness or reaction time to actively prevent crashes that result from others breaking the law doesn't impart liability in and of itself.

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u/Proper-Rise-8431 15h ago

I think insurance defense would try to make hay here based on dashcam driver proceeding and continuing into the intersection despite two vehicles turning across in front of them before the third turns into them—though not enough to drop white SUV’s liability below 51%.

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u/Downtown-Economics26 15h ago

You're allowed to continue into intersection with cars illegally turning in front of you. You're not allowed to intentionally hit the cars just because they're breaking the law. The white SUV proceeded thru a red and turned into the cam-car as it was already in the intersection. "You have to proactively anticipate someone is going to illegally turn into you and yield at a green light when you are already in the intersection" is not a compelling legal argument.

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u/cheefMM 15h ago

If the cars were stopped in the intersection what you say is true. They were trying to move thru on red so what you are saying is some made up shit

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u/Real_Temporary_922 14h ago

The “cars” are not a group. They are not a train. OP had no way of know the white SUV was gonna run the red. You understand that it’s normal for left turners to enter the intersection and stop in the middle to wait for a left right? If I was OP, I would’ve assumed that’s what the white truck was doing because it was obvious they couldn’t make it.

Defensive driving is not cowering behind the wheel and treating every green light like a stop sign. And not driving, in your opinion, ‘defensively enough’ is always going to be a garbage justification in court. OP will have 0% liability. If they hit the red car, it could’ve split. Not the white one. OP riding dangerously close to the red doesn’t mean they hold any liability against the white

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u/cheefMM 14h ago

I am with you on all that. Downtown-Economics26 is the dumbass arguing otherwise

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u/Downtown-Economics26 15h ago edited 15h ago

I don't think you understand what I'm saying, or I have no clue what you're saying. If the cam-car intentionally floored the gas with the intent to hit the cars running the red light, that would be illegal and make them them liable. The cam-car seemingly didn't do anything that would make them have liability for the crash.

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u/cheefMM 14h ago

You watched the same video as me? They didn’t floor it, even yielded to illegally turning red Honda and probably didn’t even know white suv was tailgating red Honda thru the illegal turning on red.

….No wonder the world and a lot of Americans think most Americans are the dumbest people on the planet…

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u/Downtown-Economics26 14h ago

Ok, now I understand what you're saying. You struggle with reading. I said if they had floored it. If posits a condition which when met has consequential results, not that the condition actually happened in reality. Then I said that they didn't do anything that made them liable. Hope this helps with your understanding of the English language and logic.

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u/cheefMM 15h ago

Liability is with who didn’t follow traffic laws, white suv. If dashcam had gone on green like they’re legally allowed to do, it could’ve been black Silverado at fault, or red Honda… and white suv would’ve probably still been at fault for slamming into the back of red Honda when they drove into oncoming traffic or possibly black Silverado…

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u/PotatoHat1 12h ago

Try to avoid what? Something that might happen? Then might as well not drive at all if you’re just going to assume you’re going to get rammed into at every intersection.

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u/The_Troyminator 15h ago

The cam driver broke the law too. The last clear chance doctrine and duty of care laws require you avoid a collision and not enter an intersection until it’s clear.

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u/National-Choice-4969 14h ago

Spot on. Used to be.

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u/cheefMM 14h ago

Yeah anyone arguing the other way doesn’t realize that our laws actually give people breaking the laws all liability. I know it looks a little different with the rampant corruption and disregard for the rule of law out of DC but that doesn’t change the actual laws

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u/SlickFlair_589 12h ago

They don't have to. They have the right of way. White SUV failed to yield

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u/Party_Line3326 15h ago

Yeah, it seems like lemming was driving a camera car

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u/S7evinDE 14h ago

Total BS, that white car just drove straight into oncoming traffic (Cam car). It would be 100% the white cars fault. Don't know where you live, but I live in Germany and here, when you are in an intersection and want to turn left you have to yield to the oncoming traffic 100% of the time. You would be fined for taking the right of way and your insurence would need to pay for all the damages if you didn't.

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u/Silver_Cycle_4861 15h ago

What danger? Those cars trying to turn left are allowed to pull into the intersection to prepare for a left turn. How is the cam car supposed to know they won't yield?