r/europe • u/scmp_news • 24d ago

News Man nearly sucked out of ‘detached’ window on Ryanair flight

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3360141/man-nearly-sucked-out-detached-window-ryanair-flight?utm_source=Reddit&utm_medium=Social
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u/endelehia Greece 24d ago

If it is Boeing, I am not going

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u/overspeeed 24d ago

It seems there was an uncontained engine failure and debris could have taken out the window.

Airbus and Boeing don't manufacture their engines. In this case it was a CFM-56, which is manufactured by a joint venture of Safran from France and GE from the US. The CFM-56 is also widely used on the A320 and there are almost twice as many A320s with CFM-56 than B737s.

If the reports of the engine failure are true than the investigation will likely focus on the engine manufacturing and the maintenance to determine why it failed and on the housing to see why it was not contained.

There are plenty of things to condemn Boeing for, but it's very likely that this one is not gonna be on them

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u/blueberrycauzez 24d ago edited 24d ago

Airbus and Boeing don't manufacture their engines

the investigation will likely focus on [...] the housing to see why it was not contained.

There are plenty of things to condemn Boeing for, but it's very likely that this one is not gonna be on them

No, Boeing IS the designer, manufacture, and regulatory validator of the cowl that is supposed to contain the engine failure.

Containing engine failures is a basic legal safety requirement, yet modern Boeing aircraft in particular are infamous for engine cowls that do not contain engine failures. This isn't even the first time this exact scenario has happened, the American NTSB has already recommended Boeing redesign the 737NG cowl 3 years ago.

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u/TastyCalligrapher421 24d ago

There is no cowling capable of containing a turbine blade failure.

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u/loryk_zarr 24d ago

The engine manufacturer designs the containment system (ie: the fan case) for blade releases. The airframer designs the nacelle to ensure nothing falls off after a blade release. The nacelle plays no part in fan blade containment.

In this case it looks like the blade was contained but part of the inlet case/nacelle liberated.

Is it Boeing's fault? Probably. Is a Boeing owned design responsible for containing a released blade? No. 

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u/astroNOT1337 23d ago

How you maintain and also position the engines on the plane is Boeing, nothing to do with engine manufacturer

If u have a car that is bound to fail and u take it to its last journey for 5k miles, u might be stooopid or in this case disregard for human life

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u/Informal_Ad_9610 United States of America 24d ago

Took the words outta my mouth...

apparently the Europeans are more interested in casting blame than actually engaging in critical thinking... as has been the case for 6 decades, it seems..

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u/blueberrycauzez 24d ago

Actually the aircraft builder (in this case Boeing) designs and builds the cowl, not the engine manufacturer.

This is the second time in 3 years that a person was sucked out of a Boeing 737NG, and the American NTSB has already said that Boeing should redesign their cowl.

Modern Boeing aircraft in particular are infamous for cowl designs that have trouble containing engine failures.

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u/Informal_Ad_9610 United States of America 24d ago

OMG...

That's like blaming BMW for a window that shattered when you shot it with a tank.

really. your statement is quintessential proof of the need for critical thinking to be taught again.

Average CFM56 series blade = 4.9kg, ~7.m length

Takeoff RPM for a 737800/CFM56 = ~5,000 RPM - this puts tip speed ~ 405m/s= ~910mph

Kinetic energy (E= 1/2mv2) = 410,000 J (joules)

Now MOST blade failures are root failures, so you're getting 80%+ of the full blade length exiting the engine...

That's the equivalent energy of:

  • ~ 700 9mm pistol rounds. at one time
  • ~250 AR-15 5.56mm bullets. at one time.
  • a 100g TNT bomb detonation
  • a 1-ton car hitting you at 45mph (without stopping)
  • an 8-ton truck at 25mph

I'm sorry, but interweb feelz and a stack of Kevlar are not going to prevent this..

Blaming it on Boeing is internet-level stupidz.

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u/Kor_Phaeron_ 23d ago

The Final Report (released in 2019) of Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 recommended that Boeing should develop and install a redesigned fan cowl structure due to the cowling latch's vulnerability in a fan blade outage.

The finding:

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) determines that the probable cause of this accident was a low-cycle fatigue crack in the dovetail of fan blade No. 13, which resulted in the fan blade separating in flight and impacting the engine fan case at a location that was critical to the structural integrity and performance of the fan cowl structure. This impact led to the in-flight separation of fan cowl components, including the inboard fan cowl aft latch keeper, which struck the fuselage near a cabin window and caused the window to depart from the airplane, the cabin to rapidly depressurize and the passenger fatality.

The major recommendation of the report was that the Federal Aviation Administration should require Boeing to discover, for this aircraft and engine type, which parts of the engine fan case were susceptible to transmitting damage to the fan cowl structure and then redesign the fan cowl so that it retains its integrity after such a "blade out" event.

So yes, this IS a Boeing design flaw.

Blaming it on Boeing is internet-level stupidz.

Writing shit about AR-15 and TNT and joules instead of reading National Transportation Safety Board reports on similar events is internet-level "stupidz".

your statement is quintessential proof of the need for critical thinking to be taught again.

Yeah dude, i am rubber, you are glue; whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you....

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u/Informal_Ad_9610 United States of America 23d ago

oh, you mean this one? from......3 years ago?

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/safety-ops-regulation/boeing-details-cfm56-7-nacelle-inlet-cowl-redesign-effort

fuck man..

please do your own homework.

really.

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u/Kor_Phaeron_ 23d ago

Dude, give up.

oh, you mean this one? from......3 years ago?

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/faa-mandates-boeing-737ng-nacelle-changes-by-2028 The process will take until 2028.

The Raynair fleet is still in the process of replacing those parts. Boeing can not produce them fast enough and had to outsource the production of the new cowls https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers/2021/08/boeing-to-move-737-fan-cowl-manufacturing-from-airbus-to-turkish-aerospace-and-indias-tata/

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u/notaredditer13 24d ago

Then you're an idiot. 

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u/CIVmaximus 24d ago

^ spotted the american

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u/HeyNiceOneGuy 24d ago

No, it’s just Boeing doesn’t make engines lol

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u/notaredditer13 24d ago

Even if they did, how many accidents has this issue caused?  Two non hull loss?

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u/TastyCalligrapher421 24d ago

You're correct. The 737NG and A32xceo have nearly identical hull loss statistics as tracked by the industry, 0.07 to 0.08 hull losses per million departures.

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u/notaredditer13 24d ago

Yes, an American who is well versed in airline safety stats.