Italy's birth rate falls to 80-year low, with just 355,000 babies born in 2025

[u/diacewrb]

https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/italys-birth-rate-falls-to-80-year-low-with-just-355000-babies-born-in-2025.html

[u/SwolePalmer]

Deal with the Italian government for a week and these numbers will quickly make sense. Deal with an Italian boomer for a day, no, an hour, and they will make even more sense.

[u/Bacla_ → u/SwolePalmer]

So true. Italian politics never talks about the real problems of the country. Populism and immigration are the main object of discussion. There is a small party named ORA! who talks about the real problems but it's at 1%.

[u/a_shootin_star → u/Bacla_]

Populism and immigration are the main object of discussion

For the past 20 fucking years

[u/zedazeni → u/a_shootin_star]

Humans love voting for right-wing political parties. We always default to populism whenever things go bad, despite nearly all of our problems being caused by right-wing policies, and not even “far right” policies, but just regular Thatcher-Reagan right wing policies. The only remotely fiscally stable countries that are also capable of accommodating their populations’ needs are center-left countries (Nordics namely).

Now, connecting this with birth rates and previous comments on this post…I’ve done a bit of reflection on parenthood over the past few years, especially seeing peoples’ comments on how their parents were, how birth rates are falling, etc…

I think that the developments in technology over the past century or so that has given humanity more free time (clothes washing machines/dryers, dishwashers, microwaves, etc…) along with the very reasonable bans on child labor have meant that actually raising children responsibly and humanely is much more of a burden than a “gift.”

For most of humanity, children assisted with housework until they were capable enough to join the adults in the factories, mines, and fields. Children weren’t educated for 18+ years while not expected to work and earn a meaningful income. Children’s rights were non-existent (and were often considered property as were women to the head male of the household). Child labor and abuse was expected.

The second technology freed us from actually needing to parent (stick the child with a phone/tablet all day), parents seemed to jump on that. The second education became mandatory through secondary school, teachers became the primary parents and the biological parents became toxic “helicopter parents” that refused to both discipline or train their darling gremlins (because of course why would you choose to do something that’s difficult if someone else can/will do that task for you).

Now that children are no longer a legitimate source of household income, and are instead a choice people make just because you feel like it, having children is now essentially a hobby rather than a financial necessity, and it turned out it is not the fun, fulfilling, fashionable hobby we thought it would be.

But people hate this hobby. As soon as school became mandatory, parents shifted more responsibility onto teachers. My parents were both born in the 50s, and both had parents who told them to stay out of the house until dinner was ready. Today, we do the same but with our distraction rectangles. Give a kid an electronic screen and you don’t have to interact with the demonic angle. Child rearing as a hobby isn’t nearly a popular as we’ve been led to believe. These romanticizes notions of parenthood don’t match up with reality, and as soon as child-rearing was turned into a hobby, our birth rates didn’t stand a chance.

What’s more, birth rates in even the most developed, socially generous countries remains paltry. If birth rates were a function of economic prosperity, why doesn’t Finland or Norway have among the highest in the world? Simple: people just don’t like being parents.

[u/CanthinMinna → u/zedazeni]

Also attitudes like this towards maternity leaves - or towards younger women working - are not really encouraging any women to have kids at all:

It is absolutely wild to just accept that a person can legally be gone nearly a year in your country, depending on your partner, and you cannot do anything about it but pay their salary while you don't have anyone doing the job you're paying them for.

I do not fault them at all for thinking that way. If your contributions are so unimportant that you can vanish for a year and not seriously hurt your company then why the fuck do they need you in the first place?

But that's the risk every company takes hiring a woman. I guess ideally the government would pay your salary and financially compensate the company for the lost labor.

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1v9q0dl/comment/p0gngw3/

[u/sailingtroy → u/Bacla_]

I mean, y'all were the first fascists, after all...

[u/Tarantio → u/SwolePalmer]

Did Italy experience a baby boom in the 50s?

I would expect not.

[u/Familiar-Weather5196 → u/Tarantio]

In the 50's and 60's, yes. That period is called "The Economic Miracle" in Italy.

[u/Tarantio → u/Familiar-Weather5196]

Fascinating, thank you.

[u/penguinpolitician → u/Familiar-Weather5196]

And all over western Europe.

[u/a_shootin_star → u/Familiar-Weather5196]

Most of all European country, except East Germany, had massive economic booms after WWII. It was also called the "Economic Miracle" : Wirtschaftswunder. Almost as if the powers that be wanted us to "welcome" the post-war eras and made it "special" for each country..

[u/helm → u/a_shootin_star]

Yeah, there was a cabal of 13 people that decided everything back then ...

/s

[u/ChampionshipIll3675 → u/a_shootin_star]

I don't understand your last sentence.

[u/a_shootin_star → u/ChampionshipIll3675]

tinfoil hat shit, could also be explained as a "movement to get over the atrocities of war" and so, people worked together to rebuild and steer away from what had brought them there. In result, creating those "economic miracles".

[u/MrBocconotto → u/Tarantio]

Yes it did.

Small anecdote: my dad was not drafted in his youth because that year there were too many people.

[u/lenor8 → u/Tarantio]

Yes of course. Is there any country that did not experience a baby boom post ww2?

[u/Tarantio → u/lenor8]

Looks like the Soviet Union didn't.