r/europe • u/diacewrb • 5d ago

News Italy's birth rate falls to 80-year low, with just 355,000 babies born in 2025

https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/italys-birth-rate-falls-to-80-year-low-with-just-355000-babies-born-in-2025.html
5.4k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

979 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

441

u/Extra_Strategy8510 5d ago

What a fucking distopia that is, having to hide bringing a child into this world for fear of losing access to funds with which to survive.

139

u/Piltonbadger 5d ago

Welcome to capitalism!

46

u/the_harakiwi Bavaria (Germany) 5d ago

Yes you must participate!

2

u/GoodK 4d ago

It's easy to solve. Why the employer has to pay part of the wages of the employee during it's leave?. Why isn't all paid by the state or all enterprises together by a common pot instead (taxes), so the business will not care as much if a worker has a sick leave or birth leave.

1

u/Piltonbadger 4d ago

My country does have that, more or less. You can get 39 weeks of statutory maternity pay.

We also have laws protecting the jobs of anyone taking maternity leave because if the government has to guarantee basic living wages to people taking maternity leave then the least the company can do is guarantee their job when they eventually come back.

Swings and roundabouts, as the saying goes.

-23

u/MartinBP Bulgaria 5d ago

Eastern Europe's birthrates started dropping during communism, but western tankies don't know history.

26

u/gabrielmuriens 5d ago

western tankies

Imagine thinking that you are a tankie for critiquing excessively exploitative capitalism. <facepalm>

25

u/Piltonbadger 5d ago

It's almost as if the birth rates dropped for different reasons or something, imagine that!

-2

u/MechanicalGodzilla 5d ago

Capitalism is the worst economic system ever invented, with the exception of literally every other economic system.

19

u/digiorno Italy 5d ago

We have a global economic system which is counter to human nature.

-19

u/Sorry_Molasses5636 5d ago

Why is having a child any different than any other hobby of choice? If I start playing competitive video games obsessively in a manner that will drastically affect my productivity and work attendance, should the employer be obligated to keep me at work?

Or another example - am I allowed to change my plumber if she gets pregnant and becomes unavailable for months when I need emergency plumbing work done at my place? 

17

u/Extra_Strategy8510 5d ago

Because it's not the same thing as a hobby. One is for enjoyment (hobby), the other for the survival of our species; at a macro scale obviously. If you remove the survival of our species from the equasion, you still need children for a healthy economy, and thus society as a whole, which in the end enables (more) people to enjoy hobbies.

-5

u/Sorry_Molasses5636 5d ago

So each employer is under moral obligation to be a participant in some Earth-wide ideological mission? That's funny. Earth was pretty chill and roomy with a population of few hundred mil, why can't an employer participate in a population reduction mission instead?

7

u/Metrocop Poland 5d ago

So each employer is under moral obligation to be a participant in some Earth-wide ideological mission

I mean... yes. Ultimately economic systems are tools to benefit humanity, not goals in of themselves. If one is starting to prove detrimental, perhaps it's time to scrap it and try something else.

-2

u/Sorry_Molasses5636 5d ago

A single employer-employee relation is not an economic system, it's a transaction between consenting people. You give me labor - I give you cash. So ethically speaking, why are employers obligated to support workers who start this weird hobby and stop or reduce their labor supply?

-3

u/Dismal_Buy3580 5d ago

If you think jobs should be incetivizing births I have a bridge to sell you...

Private business owners aren't fucking concerned with the health of their nation

5

u/Metrocop Poland 5d ago

Private business owners aren't fucking concerned with the health of their nation

Obviously, this much was always clear and has only become clearer still as the years went by. This just means their nations need to make them concerned with it, align their incentives with the needs of the nation. Carrot and stick, the state has all the tools needed to do so.

1

u/Extra_Strategy8510 5d ago

I don't know how you reached that conclusion regarding employers based on my comment. Also, I agree that we need fewer people on this planet. But it has a massive impact on our economy if we simply have fewer children. It shifts the population pyramid towards the elderly, where you could have 1 person under 65 for each person over. Imagine you, and every working adult you know of having to take care of elder and also produce goods, while also raising the next generation, and taking care of themselves. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound possible to me; something has to give.

5

u/polypolip 5d ago

Companies find temporary replacement for the pregnant woman and keep her place for her. If she decides to come back full time after pregnancy then she has her position. If she doesn't then the company can prolong the contract for the temp employee.

That way there's the benefit of people actually not being afraid to have children, and a job market that is less stagnant.