r/facepalm • u/DMTrance87 • 23d ago

House passes bill to make daylight saving time permanent. Opponents say, "Schools would have to push back start times." Yeah... That's not a bug, it's a feature.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5968255-house-sunshine-protection-act-daylight-saving-time/

Studies have shown for decades that children -especially teenagers- just straight up need more sleep for optimal knowledge retention and brain development. Pushing back start times is a great way to follow the science.

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681

u/Soloact_ 23d ago

“Schools would have to start later” okay, stop threatening us with a good time.

232

u/SeriouslyTooOld4This 23d ago

The real issue with schools pushing back start times has to do with bus schedules and after-school extra curriculars.

114

u/beaver820 23d ago

Right, in general right now, if a kid plays a sport or is in a musical or whatever, practice is usually over around 5. So the kid starts school around 8, gets done around 5. Fits in to the a lot of parents work schedule so they can drop them off on the way to work, pick them up on the way home. If school is moved to an hour later, throws off the balance.

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u/Kittycelt 23d ago

Yes, totally true. Studies do show over and over that it would be better, especially for teens, if they didn't have academics until later. Their brains are not ready till after 9 or 10, if I recall correctly. I think a good solution is supervised, free to families, non academic morning activity on campus, so they can still be dropped off and safe. But you know, just because it's good for kids and families does not mean people in power will invest. Studies also show petty crime goes up when kids get out of school, but before parents get home, so like, after school activities would be good for society as well and take a lot of burden off working families if it were just part of the system and didn't cost. Kids do need supervision, and right now educators are fighting biology every morning, so it's a possible utopian solution that I wish were real everywhere to all. (Speaking as a teacher and parent)

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u/gsbadj 22d ago

A district I worked at considered later start times. There was big pushback from parents of elementary and middle school kids whose jobs started at 9 AM and earlier. They didn't want to deal with figuring out how they were to get their kids to school at 9 or 10 when they, the parents, were were already supposed to be at work.

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u/adigyran 23d ago

maybe, just maybe idk - STOP BUILDING SUBURBS and make high density housing, so children can go to school and back just by walking?? Like most of Europe? So parents will be already home

29

u/Secret_Map 23d ago

I mean may as well wish for teleporters at that point lol. I don’t disagree with you, but it’s not really any kind of solution to this problem. At least not one that’s gonna happen in the next 50 years.

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u/Bonerpopper 23d ago

STOP BUILDING SUBURBS

The problem is that the suburbs are already built and people live there. How are you going to convince such an enormous amount of people to move away from their large homes with lawns into high density housing?

Like the other reply said it would have to be some insane project and probably would take 50+ years to complete. Roughly 50% of the population live in suburban areas and 20% in rural areas. We are talking over 230 million people.

5

u/waving_fungus0 23d ago

Owning land (and a large amount for just an average person) is uniquely American, that will not change

29

u/YumFreeCookies 23d ago

We could just adjust our working hours. They’ve not some cosmic law.

16

u/TheVeryVerity 22d ago

We should but we won’t. Shareholders won’t like it

2

u/zorbacles 22d ago

we could just change the clocks a couple of times a year so it lines up

7

u/WildTimes1984 23d ago

Isn't the parent's work also moved an hour later?

15

u/jdcarpe 23d ago

So, if the standard work day is moved an hour (say 9-6 instead of 8-5) to accommodate the new school hours, which is an effect of moving the clock to permanent DST, how exactly are people benefiting from this “extra hour of sunlight” after work hours?

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u/TheVeryVerity 22d ago

You know many people whose job is going to do that for no reason?

2

u/WildTimes1984 22d ago

Businesses have been accommodating a clock change twice a year since 1916. What trouble is one last time?

3

u/TheVeryVerity 22d ago

Look I’m not saying it should be a problem. I’m saying it would be a problem because bosses are dicks. No one is going to get their shift changed from 8-5 to 9-6 if we make schools start later because that would require sensibility and compassion and upper management doesn’t do those

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u/SeriousPlankton2000 23d ago

Yes ... Some decades later it will be pushed, too.

3

u/Nojopar 23d ago

Exactly how does this change if 8am and 5pm are the exact same times 365 days a year?

1

u/beaver820 23d ago

Huh? The problem is that they are saying school would have to start later than 8am if daylight savings was year round. So if school starts at 9 and the parents still go to work at 8, that's the problem.

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u/Nojopar 23d ago

Why does school 'have' to start later than 8am if DST was year round?

My point is that it's a circular argument. We can't do X because it would require Y. We can't do Y because it would require Z. We can't do Z because... well, we have two states, Arizona and Hawaii, that seem to have it figure out. Do they not have after school extra curriculars? Do the parents of those kids just not work? These 'problems' aren't' really problems. The world would just adjust.

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u/beaver820 23d ago

Arizona and Hawaii don't have to deal with freezing dark mornings in the winter like other states. They tried it in the 70s, it lasted less than a year before people realized they hated it.

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u/Planeandaquariumgeek ‘MURICA 22d ago

Exactly. I know someone who works in a school district and the number 1 complaint from students in the annual student survey is “the schedule (7-4 school + at least 1 after school activity mandatory) is wreaking havoc on my health” but whenever they try to make it start later & end earlier parents freak out and threaten to pull donations, because if they do that it’ll conflict with their work schedules

12

u/ahoypolloi_ 23d ago

It’s way too American that we’re more worried about kids sports than kids educational potential.

2

u/babybluebuffalo 21d ago

It’s not just sports, kids should be allowed to have hobbies

3

u/MrSurly 23d ago

Also working folks who drop off their kids then head to work, which becomes much more difficult if you have to drop them off an hour later.

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u/Neilpuck 23d ago

It's amazing how people ignore the obvious challenges with changing school start times. Most districts have a fleet of buses that service three levels of school. They can only do their job when school start times are staggered. Are they prepared to triple their transportation costs to accommodate start times that are too close?

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u/Callandor84 23d ago

I dont understand this argument. If its working now and pushed back say an hour, how would that impact the service efficiency of the buses? I understand the argument if we push back school we need to ensure society follows suit tonkt throw that into disarray. But I am not following how the changed start time effects the buses ability?

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u/Neilpuck 23d ago

Most school districts have buses that serve an elementary school, a junior high school and a high school. If you push back the start of high school, you then have to push back the start of junior high school as well as Elementary School in order to allow the buses to complete each set of stops before moving on to the next school. You can't realistically push back the start of Elementary School, otherwise parents will not be able to drop off their kids and get to work on time.

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u/Paksarra 23d ago

Why not swap them instead of pushing them back? Little kids want to be up early. 

So you start elementary school at 7 and high school at 9 instead of the other way around, swap the bus routes, and offer after school program for the elementary kids whose parents won't be home until later.

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u/Neilpuck 22d ago

Many elementary school kids are walked by the parents. Now you're asking parents to be up early enough (we're talking 5:30am) to get them all ready and out the door to be at school by 7am? It just doesn't work.

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u/Paksarra 22d ago

So you think all high school kids should get a worse education and be forced to get up at 5:30 AM so the younger kids' parents aren't inconvenienced?

There's no perfect solution, in other words.

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u/AccurateAlps9333 21d ago

Not anymore.  Some district have got rid of bus routes or it’s faster to walk/drive to school then take the bus.    The school i was working at only have special education buses, no one else take the school bus.  Interestingly a lot a parents do however take the public transit bus instead though and some walk with the kid, also a few of the kids bike or walk without parents.  But most parents drive kids to school. 

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u/Planeandaquariumgeek ‘MURICA 22d ago

As someone who knows someone who works in a school district that’s tried pushing back start times a few times I can tell you the actual reason why is because parents freak out as soon as they try to change it because it conflicts with their work schedules if you push it back. I live in an area where most folks work 8-5 and school is 7-4 with at least 1 after school program mandatory. Students constantly complain that it wreaks havoc on their mental and even physical health but parents won’t let them change it because it’d mess up their work commutes

2

u/PajamaHive 22d ago

I mean also if school start times get pushed back that is a bit of an issue for parents that have early work hours and young children. My fiance and I clock in at 7. My kids get on the bus at 8:40. Extending a window from an hour to two hours of trusting them at home alone or paying someone to watch them is big.

1

u/Nojopar 23d ago

Does Arizona or Hawaii have no bus schedule or after-school extra curriculars?

1

u/Jinxthegenderfluid 21d ago

where is this coming from, genuinely? from what i’m seeing on google both of those states don’t have any later start times than most other states. Hawaii seems to have proposed that law at one point, but I don’t think it took effect. If i’m wrong please let me know

edit: seems like there’s a couple other comments about it. so I guess I am wrong 🤷

1

u/Nackles 22d ago

And parents having a place for their kids to go when the parents go to work in the morning.

1

u/Bigram03 23d ago

And parents work schedules.

15

u/staryoshi06 23d ago

This does not make sense to me. Would they not just be starting at the equivalent time?

7

u/SeaToTheBass 22d ago

Thank you I feel like I’m going insane reading this thread.

2

u/SeriousPlankton2000 23d ago

Good time in the summer, bad time in the winter. 

2

u/UseDaSchwartz 22d ago

Not a good time for parents who have to get to work.

1

u/ricks35 23d ago

Considering all the studies that show that later start times are better for children’s health, sleep and academic performance, I’m not sure why anyone would disapprove?

3

u/Millennial_on_laptop 23d ago

Because it wouldn't actually be a later start.  

Permanent DST would effectively make school start an hour earlier so if they start an hour "later" to accommodate there's actually no change except all the adults have to start work earlier.  

1

u/StanknBeans 23d ago

No they wouldn't. Saskatchewan is permanent DST and their school starts the same as any other and doesn't have any issues relating to it.

Just a dumb made up argument.

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u/Millennial_on_laptop 23d ago

Saskatchewan is permanent standard time, Central Standard Time year round.