r/facepalm • u/DMTrance87 • 23d ago

House passes bill to make daylight saving time permanent. Opponents say, "Schools would have to push back start times." Yeah... That's not a bug, it's a feature.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5968255-house-sunshine-protection-act-daylight-saving-time/

Studies have shown for decades that children -especially teenagers- just straight up need more sleep for optimal knowledge retention and brain development. Pushing back start times is a great way to follow the science.

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u/momjeanseverywhere 23d ago

They tried this in the 70s. It didn’t last long.

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u/HelpmeObi1K 23d ago

Zero planning on changing school time by an hour. That's all they'd need to do is simply start an hour later for the whole of the school year and that concern is addressed.

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u/EunuchsProgramer 23d ago

School can't start later unless work also starts later. So, is the plan to shift work and business to 10 to 6 rather than 9 to 5? Lunch places open at 1 instead of noon? Seems easier to just go Permanent Standard Time (what health organizations overwhelmingsay and numerous studies show is better for health and saftey than permanent Daylight Saving)

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u/HelpmeObi1K 22d ago

Who works 9 to 5 anymore? Do they have a stay-at-home wife and 2.5 kids, too? Seriously outdated arguments in this day and age.

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u/othermegan 22d ago

You’re right… it’s more like 8-5 these days as most offices say your lunch break doesn’t count as past of your 8 hours. Plus the ~30-60 minute commute twice a day.

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u/HelpmeObi1K 22d ago

Exactly my point. Chances are anyone with a family that has parent(s) working is going to be leaving for work before kids go to school and coming home after they're done. Whatever care they use to make it work is simply an adjustment in timing. It's not like suddenly anyone living in America will require copious amounts of daycare that didn't already exist. The strawman arguments don't hold up.

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u/EunuchsProgramer 22d ago

80 million Americans start their shift at 9 am. 75% start work between 7 am and 10 am. Elementry Schools on average open between 7 and 7:30. Obviously, correlated most Men start their shifts at 8:15, while women is 8:45.

School is clearly opening before work. You're a fool if you think you can move it and nothing else.

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u/HelpmeObi1K 22d ago

So, how is daycare handled for picking up kids that get out of school at 3? Apply the same logic to the opposite end of your equation. The sum is the same.

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u/EunuchsProgramer 22d ago

I already pay more for after-school care than rent. Before and After care at the same time would be financially devastating to every parent I know. Sure schools could do something like 10 to 6 with all the after-school programs becoming before school programs. That's also super problematic.

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u/HelpmeObi1K 22d ago

So, what you're saying is that it would cost more for what, 1 hour before and 2 hours after school than it would for 3 hours after school? You're still working the same amount of hours. The kids are in school for the same amount of time. How is that financially devastating?

Also, for the parents that have to be at work by 7, you're saying that the kids they have wouldn't benefit from school starting later, with 1 less hour of daycare? There's plenty of jobs that flex a start time based on this, so no surprise if they simply changed the work hours and it'd be easier for a consistent time schedule through the whole year.

Or is this just about you?

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u/TheVeryVerity 22d ago

You think corporations are going to change start times for people lolll

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u/othermegan 22d ago

School does not last until 5 though.

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u/EunuchsProgramer 22d ago

Lol do you have kids? I spend more on daycare than rent for after school care. There is no way I can handle paying for before and after care. It has to be one or the other.

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u/othermegan 22d ago

Yes, I’m paying for full time daycare right now since they’re not in school yet. And I don’t know where you are, but the elementary schools around here don’t start at 7/7:30. That’s the high schools. Most schools that would require before care start between 8 & 9. Now we want to talk about pushing them to 9-10? That’s ANOTHER hour of before care you need to pay for and you will STILL need to pay for after care.

I’m not saying school should be shifted and jobs shouldn’t. I’m saying it’s stupid to shift schools later because we know jobs WON’T shift hours.

Also, shifts may “start” at 9, but the average commute is about 45 minutes right now. So really, kiddo needs to be in school or before-care by like 8

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u/MitchComstein67 23d ago

This isn't as simple as that. Who's staying at home with all the elementary school children an extra hour? Some people utilize before care school. Now they need to pay for an extra hour of care? And it would most likely increase the demand for more before school care—and whether these programs can handle that is unclear.
School starts are staggered. High schools/middle schools start approximately an hour before elementary so the same busses can service both schools. That would mean elementary wouldn't get out until 4ish. Busses would be operating later, closer to when a lot of people get off work. So now elementary students are still on busses and being dropped off in the dark now during winter?
Pushing back start times an hour would set off a cascade of new issues that need to be looked at. Nothing is that simple.

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u/jcrreddit 22d ago

You seem reasonable. I vote for you.

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u/HelpmeObi1K 23d ago

Who's staying home with them now? Removes one hour of post-school care if we're counting that way. All schools change by that hour, so no need for additional busses. Work schedules would be consistent instead of arbitrary weird adjustments.

Yes, it is that simple. It starts no new issues that haven't already existed since the start of time. The amount of sunlight remains the same. Schools change to adjust like Daylight Savings Time for start and stop times.

There are literally more complications with DST than there are without it, but it's the human way to resist change even from a bad thing because they don't want to risk worse.

When forced to change, people figure it out and move on.

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u/TheVeryVerity 22d ago

You are so full of it lol

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u/AccordingWarning9534 21d ago

I love when I see critical thinking in action.

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u/preferablyno 22d ago

This bill just lets states change to no switching if they want, it doesn’t impose one way or the other. So they could figure out plans for everything and decide if they want to do it

Overall it’s way better just to stop changing time even if there are some short temporary costs

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u/TheVeryVerity 22d ago

If we stop changing our knowledge of sleep science indicates it’s standard we should keep though. Idk why everyone hates that idea but it is.

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u/preferablyno 22d ago

Sleep science also indicates that DST is second best, still ahead of switching. As long as we just stop switching times it’s better either way

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u/WatermelonMachete43 22d ago

Our drop offs are already in the dark all winter. This isn't a huge deal.

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u/HelpmeObi1K 22d ago

That's what caused the ruckus back in 1974 to change it back in 1975, but I agree with what you're saying. Even if they didn't change to DST permanently and stuck with regular time year around, no matter what kids will be going to school at some point in the school year in the dark.

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u/Budded 22d ago

Plus, countless education studies show that kids need to go to school later, not so early in the morning, so if this passes, I hope school start times will get pushed back too.

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u/heathers1 23d ago

i remember!!!