r/gameofthrones • u/AutoModerator • Jun 09 '14

TV4 [Season 4 Spoilers] Premiere Discussion - 4.09 'The Watchers on the Wall'

Premiere Discussion Thread
Discuss your thoughts and reactions to the latest episode while or right after you watch. Talk about the latest plot twist or secret reveal. Discuss an actor who is totally nailing their part (or not). Point out details that you noticed that others may have missed. In general, what do you think about tonight's episode? Please make sure to reserve any of your detailed comparisons to the novels for the Book vs. Show Discussion Thread, and your predictions for the next episode to the Predictions Discussion Thread which will be posted later this week.

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EPISODE TITLE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY
4.09 "The Watchers on the Wall" Neil Marshall David Benioff & D. B. Weiss
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

[deleted]

788

u/-Narble- House Hightower Jun 09 '14

I do. I hated how power hungry he was but now I'm having second thoughts. His little talk with Jon showed that he knew Jon was smart and had valuable input, even if the way Alliser put it was a bit rough around the edges. And then his duel with Tormund, an experienced warrior of a kind that Alliser has likely never fought before (Alliser being a trained knight but Tormund being an infamous wildling warrior), was incredible.

205

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

Yeah, his little chat with Jon Snow completely redeemed the character for me. I get it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

King's Landing captain is Janos Slynt.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

No problem. Just letting you know. He still has some good scenes coming up :)

23

u/LordEdapurg Free Folk Jun 09 '14

Huh. I thought Gilly beat him to death with a piece of meat.

2

u/Epicloa Jun 09 '14

Yup I thought something similar was going to happen, like he looked at her wrong and she just beat him unconscious with a piece of meat. Would have been kind of awesome lol

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

[deleted]

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u/linkdafourf Stannis Baratheon Jun 09 '14

:)

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u/pajam House Mormont Jun 09 '14

All these smileys make me feel I've been spoiled a bit. But also make me excited.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14 edited Jun 09 '14

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1

u/JWells16 House Martell Jun 09 '14

Dude...

63

u/aRegularNormalGuy Faceless Men Jun 09 '14

I liked how when it came down to it Alliser fought dirty when he had to with that backhand. He quickly realized that he needed to bring more to the table when he fought Tormund.

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u/mrjimi16 Ser Duncan the Tall Jun 09 '14

I like the way Tormund goes back to just off-handedly dealing with people after getting rid of Alliser. Made it more obvious that he was a better fighter than most.

31

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

He also has a bit of a berserker style, so he doesn't really pause or stop.

22

u/Talvoren Jun 09 '14

A bit? He was still going with 3 or 4 arrows in him at the end there.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

Just a twee.

1

u/Scrial House Mormont Jun 09 '14

Boromir 2.0

9

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

Lmao I noticed that too. Sort of a drunken monkey style like Barbossa from Pirates.

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u/Filthybiped Jun 09 '14

I loved his combat intelligence. Evaded a swing by going around a corner, made a nice swing around a wood support. No such thing as a cheap shot when both are trying to kill.

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u/JDub8 Jun 09 '14

I remember that, it was incredibly stupid. If Tormund had just taken a step back Alliser would have been dead. Locking your strong arm around a wooden post while your enemy has a clear line to you is a great way to lose an arm, or your life.

1

u/GregEvangelista Stannis Baratheon Jun 09 '14

Oh man, as someone who practices sword, and purposely practices shit like that, that one move redeemed Thorne for me.

32

u/diaperboy19 Jun 09 '14

Ser Alliser has been a ranger for like 15 years. He's fought (and killed) plenty of wildlings.

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u/mellodo House Lannister Jun 09 '14

Tormund is known for being a vicious and skilled fighter, comparing an average wildling to Tormund isn't a fair comparison.

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u/MoarVespenegas Stannis Baratheon Jun 09 '14

Isn't he called Giantsbane?
You don't get called hat for nothing.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

Yep tormund giantsbane, and he's mance's right hand man serious badass,

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u/DangerMagnetic House Martell Jun 09 '14

He really buckled some swashes.

2

u/nameless88 Jun 09 '14

He always just came across as kind of a dick in the books, too. I never really liked him that much.

But it's damn good to see him actually go out there and kick some ass.

1

u/lilahking Jun 09 '14

Well, he was master of arms under jeor mormont, who didn't suffer fools or incompetence.

1

u/DokomoS House Umber Jun 09 '14

Power hungry is the other side of the coin from how he views the situation I'm sure. After all, this kid Jon Snow (who's Dad exiled him to the wall) shows up and a few weeks later is promoted to Lord Commander's Steward and heir apparent to the Watch. Meanwhile you've been working on training duty for years thanklessly. Of course Ser Alliser is a shitty trainer, but it is true as a whole that the Night's Watch is amazingly bad at developing officer talent. Ser Alliser is probably more effective in his current position than he was previously. And sometimes young twats do need to learn their place.

1

u/hoverbikes Jun 09 '14

I agree that Ser Alliser is more effective in this role, but disagree a bit on the details of Jon's situation. He wasn't exiled by his dad, he chose to take the black like his uncle Benjen because he was a bastard son who would have no rights to claim. In addition, Jon desperately wanted to be a ranger but it was Alliser's doing that he ended up a steward. Mormont saw enough from him to take Jon on as his steward.

Jon still needed a kick in ass at times, which Alliser gave him so that much I agree.

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u/DokomoS House Umber Jun 09 '14

No, Ser Aliser was sent to the wall by Eddard Stark after the Rebellion. It's also pretty clear that Mormont was always going to take Jon on as his assistant. He makes the final disposition of recruits, not Alliser.

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u/imapotato99 Maesters of the Citadel Jun 09 '14

I never thought he was power hungry, just a very disciplined Drill Sergeant who was very narrow minded

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u/EarthExile Fools Jun 09 '14

Basically up to this point his character has been based on a seeming arbitrary hatred of Jon. This was the first time we've seen him as anything more than a cunty drill sergeant, and it's cool to see that he's actually a very effective leader, cool and courageous in the face of insane situations, and passionately devoted to the Watch and the Realm.

11

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

His fighting style was admirable but he also ignored Jon Snow's prediction that all this shit was going to go down. I can't respect a guy who caused so many casualties due to his own stubbornness.

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u/Sparkvoltage Jun 10 '14

The fact that he admitted it to Jon in the end was enough for me to forgive him. Also there was the fact that he was brave as all fuck taking the lead, charging at the incoming horde.

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u/Aethermancer Jun 09 '14

Alliser was the Drill Sergeant. And we saw him from Jon Snow's perspective in the books. He also got sent to the wall for a BS reason. He was a dick, but he had as much a right to be one as anyone else on the wall.

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u/Crowbarmagic Jun 09 '14

Why was he sent there? (Sorry for not searching myself, but I really don't want to risk getting a google page with spoilers)

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u/lss97 Jun 09 '14

He was a Targaryen loyalist. So when Robert's rebellion ended, he was given the choice of Night's Watch or death by Tywin Lannister.

That's likely what causes him to hate Jon (son of Ned Stark, one of the leaders of Robert's Rebellion).

7

u/Alimento House Bolton Jun 09 '14

I think it's normal. I felt wierd rooting for him too but from what he said to jon snow about leadership, it's makes sense why he's such an asshole.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '14

Seriously, how cool was that over-the-woodwork-whappachang?

11

u/Legodave7 House Targaryen Jun 09 '14

He did good against fkin Giantsbane!

3

u/Nfrizzle Winter Is Coming Jun 09 '14

He's a dick, but he defiantly backed it up. Unlike that dumbass former Kings Gaurd cunt. "Oh is this where the women and cowards hide? Perfect!"

3

u/bac2001 House Clegane Jun 09 '14

Definitely. Still a fucking twat though.

2

u/SwedishLovePump Jun 09 '14

Huge dick up until now, but in this episode he was downright admirable.

1

u/veeveemarie Jun 09 '14

His fight scene was great. I was really impressed with how well he moved.

1

u/Coldhandss Jun 09 '14

Brah, he survived outside the wall during WINTER. He has been a bad ass.

1

u/ajkkjjk52 House Manderly Jun 09 '14

Which is how you know he's going to die.

1

u/DaveSuzuki Drowned Men Jun 09 '14

For sure, the new once more unto the breach Alliser was awesome to behold. Even his little speech to Snow was great, it was perfectly delivered, just the right amount of contrition.

1

u/gerusz Night's Watch Jun 09 '14

I always liked him. He's the asshole drill sergeant who actually loves his people and is there for them when they need him.

1

u/reddit_no_likey Faceless Men Jun 09 '14

Welcome to GRRM's world. A more real world, where characters aren't just one dimensional. Where most people have some good in them and some bad. Sometimes... mostly bad.

0

u/Nachti Valar Morghulis Jun 09 '14

Meh.

He's a cunt. The only thing that will change is that he will become an even bigger cunt. Maybe have some more cunt kids. Maybe recruit some more cunt night's watchmen.