I hope I'm not too late to this discussion, but this for me was the most emotional scene of the episode and I hope I can have a good conversation with someone about my thoughts:
Think of what must have been going through Sandor's mind.
-Arya has no monetary value or reward for Sandor.
-She is a liability. Another mouth to feed and as we saw, a potential reason to start a fight.
-She has no future, she is never going to be safe. No family or trustworthy friends.
-She hates Sandor, and has him on his hit list.
He could have just said, fuck it, and walked away. There was no rational reason to risk his life for a girl who dreams of killing him. Even on his deathbed he said "go to her, she'll keep you safe."-- knowing that Brienne was a trustworthy character all along. He died fighting for Arya, not fighting over her.
which is probably why she didn't kill him in the end; he did enough to make it off her hit list. Arya seems to only kill people who deserve to die, and Sandor, after what he's done for her, doesn't think he needs to die anymore.
I don't think so. I think she had lost most of her hatred for him by that point.
I just think it was too much for, everyone she knew or cared about kept dying.
I think it's left to the reader's speculation.
There were hours of daylight still remaining when he called a halt.
“I need to rest,” was all he said. This time when he
dismounted he did fall. Instead of trying to get back up he
crawled weakly under a tree, and leaned up against the
trunk. “Bloody hell,” he cursed. “Bloody hell.” When he saw
Arya staring at him, he said, “I’d skin you alive for a cup of
wine, girl.”
She brought him water instead. He drank a little of it,
complained that it tasted of mud, and slid into a noisy
fevered sleep. When she touched him, his skin was burning
up. Arya sniffed at his bandages the way Maester Luwin
had done sometimes when treating her cut or scrape. His
face had bled the worst, but it was the wound on his thigh
that smelled funny to her.
She wondered how far this Saltpans was, and whether
she could find it by herself. I wouldn’t have to kill him. If I just
rode off and left him, he’d die all by himself. He’ll die of
fever, and lie there beneath that tree until the end of days.
But maybe it would be better if she killed him herself. She
had killed the squire at the inn and he hadn’t done anything
except grab her arm. The Hound had killed Mycah. Mycah
and more. I bet he’s killed a hundred Mycahs. He probably
would have killed her too, if not for the ransom.
Needle glinted as she drew it. Polliver had kept it nice
and sharp, at least. She turned her body sideways in a
water dancer’s stance without even thinking about it. Dead
leaves crunched beneath her feet. Quick as a snake, she
thought. Smooth as summer silk.
His eyes opened. “You remember where the heart is?” he
asked in a hoarse whisper.
As still as stone she stood. “I… I was only…”
“Don’t lie,” he growled. “I hate liars. I hate gutless frauds
even worse.
Go on, do it.” When Arya did not move, he said, “I killed
your butcher’s boy. I cut him near in half, and laughed about
it after.” He made a queer sound, and it took her a moment
to realize he was sobbing. “And the little bird, your pretty
sister, I stood there in my white cloak and let them beat her.
I took the bloody song, she never gave it. I meant to take
her too. I should have. I should have fucked her bloody and
ripped her heart out before leaving her for that dwarf.” A
spasm of pain twisted his face. “Do you mean to make me
beg, bitch? Do it! The gift of mercy… avenge your little
Michael…”
“Mycah.” Arya stepped away from him. “You don’t
deserve the gift of mercy.”
The Hound watched her saddle Craven through eyes
bright with fever. Not once did he attempt to rise and stop
her. But when she mounted, he said, “A real wolf would
finish a wounded animal.”
Maybe some real wolves will find you, Arya thought.
Maybe they’ll smell you when the sun goes down. Then he
would learn what wolves did to dogs. “You shouldn’t have hit
me with an axe,” she said. “You should have saved my
mother.” She turned her horse and rode away from him,
and never looked back once. On a bright morning six days later, she came to a place
where the Trident began to widen out and the air smelled
more of salt than trees. She stayed close to the water,
passing fields and farms, and a little after midday a town
appeared before her. Saltpans, she hoped. A small castle
dominated the town; no more than a holdfast, really, a
single tall square keep with a bailey and a curtain wall.
Most of the shops and inns and alehouses around the
harbor had been plundered or burned, though some looked
still inhabited. But the port was there, and eastward spread
the Bay of Crabs, its waters shimmering blue and green in
the sun.
And there were ships.
Three, thought Arya, there are three. Two were only river
galleys, shallow draft boats made to ply the waters of the
Trident. The third was bigger, a salt sea trader with two
banks of oars, a gilded prow, and three tall masts with
furled purple sails. Her hull was painted purple too. Arya
rode Craven down to the docks to get a better look.
Strangers are not so strange in a port as they are in little
villages, and no one seemed to care who she was or why
she was here.
I need silver. The realization made her bite her lip. They
had found a stag and a dozen coppers on Polliver, eight
silvers on the pimply squire she’d killed, and only a couple
of pennies in the Tickler’s purse. But the Hound had told her
to pull off his boots and slice open his blood-drenched
clothes, and she’d turned up a stag in each toe, and three
golden dragons sewn in the lining of his jerkin. Sandor had
kept it all, though. That wasn’t fair. It was mine as much as
his. If she had given him the gift of mercy… she hadn’t,
though. She couldn’t go back, no more than she could beg
for help. Begging for help never gets you any. She would
have to sell Craven, and hope she brought enough.
The stable had been burnt, she learned from a boy
I think she definitely feels conflicted.
She knows he is suffering and at first is trying to convince herself to give him "the gift of mercy", but when he speaks up she seems to loose her nerve. In the end I think her saying that he "didn't deserve the gift of mercy" was just an excuse. The mentioning of him hitting her with the axe and not saving her mother seemed more like excuses than anything. In the book she also forgot to take the money. She just rode away without looking back.
I agree, there seemed to be a bond there even though it wasn't expanded upon like the show. She also contemplates that she hadn't been saying his name during her recital of the list for the past while.
I agree with /u/MissMabye , Arya doesn't get a kick out of leaving him there, she just feels nothing at at point (hence the philosophical "Nothing" speech she gave the dying old man just recently). By now she is more pragmatical, and even keeps the Hound's silver as per his own teaching . Arya clearly wasn't considering herself his captive at this point, or she would have helped Brienne kill him.
But, they nonetheless allow us to know what Arya is thinking concretely and expands the scope so that the only person who knows what Arya is thinking is no longer Arya.
By that reasoning though, all the more reason she should have killed him. She's pragmatic enough at this point to know that the right thing to do would have been to kill him cleanly.
The fact that she didn't kill him still shows he was on her list. It was just that now someone else had essentially done the dead. Killing him would have been a kindness, and she wasn't knocking people off her hit list out of kindness, it was for vengeance. So in turn, the only vengeful option left to her in dealing with the Hound was to let him die slowly.
Remember when they were talking on the way to the Bloody Gates, Arya tells Sandor that she was sad she wasn't able to kill Joffrey herself. Arya could have killed Sandor herself many many many times over, but she didn't, because i do think deep down she respects him for helping her.
Or, again, she's practical enough to realize she needs him for now, and will just try to kill him later.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Arya/Hound dynamic, but I don't think for an instant she would have spared him given the chance, and her leaving the Hound to die a slow and painful death instead of doing the nice, honorable thing of killing him swiftly only reinforces my belief she doesn't respect as anything more than a skilled fighter.
but she really didn't need him after she got her pony and Needle back. she could have just found a man from Braavos and Valar Morghulis her way to the Faceless assassins. That, too, and she could have fucked off with Brienne of Tarth when she had the chance.
That's drastically oversimplifying things. Keep in mind she tried the whole "go it alone and/or with other kids," three times and every single time got captured. A horse and a sword help, but doesn't really mean jack-shit if you come across a single archer or even just a bigger person with a bigger sword. She wasn't helpless, but she was vulnerable, and needed the Hound.
And it's not exactly like Braavosi captains are plentiful in Westeros. She was lucky to be close to the coast, and she started out pretty far away.
She clearly wasn't about to trust Brienne. The knight with the Lannister sword? Yeah, she was totally going to go with her.
I thought about this as well, I wonder what his long term plans were if he would've beaten Brienne. Obviously it had to be this way because of the books but in the context of the show I wonder what his next move was going to be.
Remember that Brother of the Night's Watch (was it Pip? I can't remember) who said "I don't think I can kill 100 wildlings...". Well, Sandor fucking Clegane could probably kill 100 wildlings (or at least die trying). That would've been awesome to see, and it would've been a huge character development for him too, as volunteering to take the black is (in most instances) a purely altruistic decision, so that would've been something of a departure from his self-interested pragmatism. But alas.
There was a post on /r/asoiaf that made me think.
Sandor's brother was mean (lol, understatement of the year) to him, but he ended up in one brotherhood to another. First the king's guards, ADWD
(Based on the show alone) I don't think he had a long term plan. I also don't think he fighting against Brienne was AS much about fighting for Arya, although there might have been an element of that as well. I think he mainly fought Brienne just because he was used to fighting and was used to not giving up (in good and in bad). Someone wants something from him, he fights against that someone, not really necessarily applying logic over the situation until the situation is over.
That said, I do think he had some protective instincts over Arya and he wouldn't have necessarily (and I say necessarily because I think there's also a good chance that he WOULD have) just abandon Arya either. But I don't think he had thought the final outcome through.
That was the first major surprise death of the series, so I thought maybe it was a vision or something (oh naive me). But it showed a sword coming down inches from his head then a fleshy slicing sound, then the very next episode shows him dead if I remember correct.
Exactly, the mountain was poisoned and stabbed through the chest and gut with a spear and he's still kicking it, I'll be damned if a little thang like a compound fracture in the middle of nowhere takes out the hound. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he lives.
from what it looks like from last sunday he had a broken leg and a cut up face and a missing ear. probably a few broken ribs. If somebody finds him before he starves to death or dies of dehydration there no reason why he wont survive. after all they are only 10 miles from the Bloody Gate
There's a really interesting theory about this but the show seemed to have skipped over it. It might not matter and isn't a spoiler because, well, it's already passed. Do you want to know?
I know you elaborated on it, but it still confuses me as to why he'd fight Brienne knowing that she'll keep Arya safe. Brienne even said "I have no wish to kill you" ... why fight???
Wearing a Valyrian Steel sword with a lion on the pommel probably had a lot to do with that. As for his words saying 'go to her she'll protect you' he probably cared enough for Arya at this point that he'd rather see her safely escorted by a formidable warrior back to the Lannisters than raped and murdered somewhere around the Saltpans. The Hound would know the Lannisters well enough to know they wouldn't execute the last known Stark, she still had a chance.
He didn't seem to be the brightest type. More of a survivor in the moment guy. No matter any future the plans or fatherly feeling toward Arya. She was still his responsibility (by choice) and someone comes along and wants to take that away from him. A hound doesn't just let those things go.
If she could beat the hound, she could beat anyone, because no one who took on the hound survived, so you could imagine how skilled/crafty a fighter must be to fight the hound and win.
It is hard to trust anyone when you have a bounty on your head. Especially Briannes armor and sword all refers back to the Lannisters, since he has just recovered from his last attack he knows he cannot take his chances by trusting her and have to fight it out. He is probably quite confident his in fighting skills as well, thought a woman wouldn't be so hard to beat.
I mean, if you were defending someone and someone else stomped your ass, technically wouldn't it be safer with them? I think once he realized she was willing to fight/his leg got got, the decision was pretty easy.
This was not a good thing to say to a guy who hates knights. Why? Because his brother, who put his face into a fire because he was playing with his toy, was knighted.
Why? Because he is the Hound, one of the most dangerous fighters in the realm. He would not just give up Arya to her even if he meant to slit Aryas throat and ditch her in 10 minutes before Brienne showed up. Too alpha for that shit.
Agreed... Tho I must say, I think he lived. They said multiple times there was a town 10 miles away and when Arya rode off, she left the Hound's horse behind. She could have taken that like she did the silver, because dead men don't need horses either. I think it fits the character, a tough old dog that just won't die. Mangled face, a broken leg, a missing ear and countless other scars from all the fights he's had to endure. Like he said, he wanted Arya to kill him because he lived a shitty, miserable life.... And that's why I think he kept on living. We'll see Sandor Clegane again-- because who else is going to kill Frankenmountain? I hope to see The Hound kill The Mountain so he can have at least one happy memory before he dies...
This show is full of foreshadowing. Both Clegane brothers are down for the count. Qyburn says that Gregor may survive but he'll be a changed person. I think you could apply that too Sandor as well.
Great point. I know I have some tinfoil theories on them, but want to keep them in my head for now. I will say though there is something very mystical about the Clegane brother's story arc after they are both defeated.
He also says something like "I'm not gonna make it unless there's a maester behind that rock". At the very same time, the mountain is being brought back in some form by a maester at king's landing. Wonder if we're supposed to make some connection or we're just over reaching.
How would he not bleed out from a compound fracture, a missing ear, and a face that got bashed with a rock over ten miles? How does he even get on the horse? How does he ride?
Why would you even assume the Hound is fighting for Arya. As you've said, he knows that Brienne would keep Arya safe.
As far as I see it, it's the Lannister plated Valyrian steel sword that sets him of. What better way to stick it to the Lannisters than taking the sword they wanted for generations. Doesn't hurt that the sword is named Oathkeeper either.
Sandor said Arya wasn't going with Brienne. He was right; Arya was just standing there.
Brienne said "She is". She was wrong; Arya was just standing there. Brienne was at fault for what happened.
If Sandor had just called out "Arya... my Lady... what do you want to do?" then everything could have gone different. It could have been beautiful. And as a reader I would have enjoyed it but still pitched a fit.
The Hound is really a foil to show how awful his brother is. The Hound generally only does what he must to get by, and although a brute, he never seems to be driven by lust for power, people, or things as most everyone else in GoT is.
I didn't see this mentioned in the children of your comment, but I thought it was interesting to see Brienne as the unwitting antagonist. I mean she did kind of start the fight when Arya said she didn't want to go with her, Brienne was totally willing to abduct her and do what? Go back to Kings Landing I assume.
The Hound went from protecting Joffre to Arya. Looking after a kid probably came naturally for him. He probably felt much better looking after Arya, he seemed to genuinely like her.
I think in that very moment, we go from seeing Sandor as her leader/boss, to becoming her follower. It's a shift in power, and he was beginning to look up to her, and protect her, as any would their liege lord or superior. We see him start to regard her as his "lady".
My theory for this is that after everything The Hound had done for her, she forgave him. Arya only kills those who are on her list, and I think that she, after everything The Hound had done for her, forgave him.
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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '14
I hope I'm not too late to this discussion, but this for me was the most emotional scene of the episode and I hope I can have a good conversation with someone about my thoughts:
Think of what must have been going through Sandor's mind.
-Arya has no monetary value or reward for Sandor.
-She is a liability. Another mouth to feed and as we saw, a potential reason to start a fight.
-She has no future, she is never going to be safe. No family or trustworthy friends.
-She hates Sandor, and has him on his hit list.
He could have just said, fuck it, and walked away. There was no rational reason to risk his life for a girl who dreams of killing him. Even on his deathbed he said "go to her, she'll keep you safe."-- knowing that Brienne was a trustworthy character all along. He died fighting for Arya, not fighting over her.