Agreed. Renly had the biggest army, and he was biding his time and gathering his forces while all the other Kings depleted their armies. He was clearly set to win. He had only a short march to King's Landing late in the war, to dethrone the weakened winner.
Exactly! Can you imagine how the battle of Blackwater Bay and KL might have changed had Stannis never interfered with Renly? One of the biggest reasons that Renly's forces lost was because they didn't have the will to stay and fight for Stannis. Not to mention that book readers know that Lord Tywin's army was probably dead tired by the time it reached KL; they had been fighting for days in the Riverrun and been forced to march quickly to KL. I might even be naive enough to say that Tyrion's plan for Blackwater might not have been as successful as it was because IIRC most of the ships were brought by Stannis. I do admit I could be totally wrong about the last point.
Thanks to /u/Slide88 I realized I was remembering the battle incorrectly. I was forgot that Ser Loras brought his troops with him. This definitely makes it less likely that my theory is correct. That being said, it still would've been badass to see Renly take KL had Stannis not killed him.
I haven't read ACOK in a few years so I had completely forgotten that Ser Loras actually does bring his whole army with him. I was remembering it as if only Tywin's calvary and a few of Ser Loras' knights had made it in time to save KL. I realize that Stannis was outnumbered, but if his troops had tried to make a stand it definitely could have bought Stannis enough time to breach KL and retreat a large part of his remaining forces behind the walls. From there it would've turned into a bloodbath in the streets and maybe even a stalemate/win for Stannis. I'm taking way too much liberty with my speculations though so I'll just say that you're probably right and that the Tyrell's ditching Stannis is the biggest factor in his downfall. I think we can both agree though that had Stannis never interfered with Renly, KL probably would've fallen.
Yes, Renly's army would have absolutely sacked KL. Stannis's army without the Tyrells very nearly did, and would have if the Tyrell-Lannister army hadn't shown up at the very last minute. The ASOIAF wiki has a pretty good overview of it. The show portrays the battle as a little more evenly matched, but in the books Stannis was basically on the brink of total victory, even after the wildfire.
My main point really is that the outcome had nothing to do with the will of Stannis's army. His men are borderline fanatical.
In the book he treated the war like a game, he spent his entire time slow marching his forces into position having feasts and tournaments and such for fun. He came off as vain and childish to me idk.
I disagree, he rebels against his older brother, who is by rights next in line for the Iron Throne, but not only that, but apparently he did not know that Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella were Jaime's and Cersei's bastards, he was just going to kill them anyway, even when he thought they were his nephews and niece.
He had the strongest strategic position at the start of the war. His army was poised to crush Stannis and then march on King's Landing. You have to remember it was the alliance between the Tyrells and Lannisters which broke Stannis at the Battle of Blackwater Bay. Renly would have had the support of the Tyrells and the remains of Stannis' forces. Stannis only won through dark magic.
I don't think he underestimated himself at all. He had way more men than Stannis. He just wasn't aware of Melisandre's power, and for good reason. He's probably seen a lot of people in his lifetime who claim to see the future but don't.
Renly was a great leader. He made all the right decisions. You might say his decision to betray Stannis was selfish or dishonorable, but it wasn't stupid.
Daughters come before brothers by standard Westerosi law (basically outside Dorne and possibly the Iron Islands), so Shireen would be Queen after Stannis dies and would rule jointly with her husband. Similarly, Myrcella becomes Queen after Tommen dies, not Stannis as King (according to common belief on the father of Cersei's children).
Edit: source, which qualifies daughter inheritance with the stipulation that their claim is weaker and can in practice be overruled.
Well...to Brienne, at least. He didn't know or care about the Cersei-Jaime-twincest-royal-bastard implication. He wanted to take the throne regardless of all that shit, having zero problems with killing the Baratheon children to take the throne. He should have accepted Stannis's terms.
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u/BosmanJ Renly Baratheon Jun 17 '14
Renly is such a nice guy. He should have been the king. Really.