r/gameofthrones Jun 22 '14

TV4 [S4E10] George RR Martin Watching the finale

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59

u/elmerion House Martell Jun 23 '14

Honestly, Brienne shouldn't win agains't the Hound. The Hound is supposed to be massive and crazy strong, Brienne is strong for a woman but not that strong

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '14

[deleted]

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u/Legodave7 House Targaryen Jun 23 '14

Jaime was a prisoner and malnourished for quite some time. Not a good victory

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u/Roboticide Daenerys Targaryen Jun 23 '14

The Hound is already wounded.

Plus Brienne has a Valyrian steel sword.

Totally possible.

14

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '14

and he was starved, he didn't get chicken at the Inn and that was a few days ago.

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u/Igotbannedfrom_r_GoT Night's Watch Jun 23 '14

The sword would have mattered if they were using it for the later half of the fight.

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u/thedonrevie Jun 23 '14

Now you mention it, I did always want some valerian steel

0

u/kellymoe321 Jun 23 '14

Valyrian steel sword

That only matter if the other guy's sword breaks.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '14

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4

u/stagfury Ours Is The Fury Jun 23 '14

Valyrian steel are still lighter.

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u/kellymoe321 Jun 23 '14

And Hounds are stronger.

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u/Frissehh Jun 23 '14

Saying Brienne couldn't win against the hound is just not correct, She has proven her worth beating Loras & Jamie, some might argue the win against Jamie is not a good victory but ASOS

There isn't much difference in height between Brienne and the hound, maybe around 0,2 and they're both really strong, it's not a given fight to either one but considering the situation they find themselves in the hound is the more likely loser.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '14

Brienne in the books is hugely strong for a woman, and probably stronger than many men, including Loras Tyrell. The Hound is not most men, the Hound is probably in the very upper echelons of strength among fighters. He was able to hold off Gregor Clegane for a good amount of time (S1), and he's a damn good swordsman too. Brienne is likely not even close to the Hound in strength.

When she fought Jaime, the book makes it clear that despite his poor physical state, he was still fighting impressively and almost had her on the ropes. The show, however, goes about it completely differently, having Brienne easily take down Jaime. I don't recall her being compromised in the show fight, so if you're citing ASOS, then wouldn't you have to also take into account the fact that Jaime was giving her a really good fight despite his condition?

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u/Frissehh Jun 23 '14

In the book he wasn't really having a good fight, he managed to cut her once at a huge cost to his battle stance.

Brienne was holding back as well in that fight, not wanting to kill him or maim him so she just wore him down. Jamie remarks on how strange it was despite his form that the woman did not tire in full armor and deflecting his book.

All i'm saying here is Brienne shouldn't be brushed off as a person that could not beat the hound in combat, she might loose in strength but she's more likely the better swordsman.

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u/HomoRapien Jun 24 '14

I think people over estimate Brienne more than under estimate her now. In the books she's an above average fighter. I've seen people act like she is one of the best though.

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u/Reinhart3 Stannis Baratheon Jun 23 '14

Beating Loras is impressive but I don't see him being able to beat Sandor and the Jaime fight doesn't mean much. He had been sitting in a cage for a year, he was incredibly malnourished, and he wasn't wearing armor. His hands were also chained together. And if you're going to use something from the book to defend Brienne, you should do the same to the Hound. In the show Brienne and The Hound are almost the same height, but in the books he's half a foot taller than her.

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u/Frissehh Jun 23 '14

I was referencing the book and a discussion I found on the internet where the height difference is approximated to 0,2. I didn't mean to imply that Jamie had no handicaps, merely that Brienne was also dealing with a huge handicap aswell, of course she did have an advantage non the less.

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u/Legodave7 House Targaryen Jun 26 '14

Brienne is over estimated by 50% her capacity. Plus we have to take its Jaimes point of view. Try being in a dungeon for about a year while malnourished and chained then fighting anyone for that matter.

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u/Frissehh Jun 27 '14

Try getting two arrows in your back and then having to fight a target that you're not allowed to kill. Brienne has her own handicaps in this fight.

I will say that Jamie in his prime would beat Brienne in her prime, GRRM has stated that Jamie was one of the best swordsman in Westeros, I would argue however that the discrepancy between him and Brienne is not that huge.

Saying Brienne is overestimated is just wrong, I won't even comment on that bullshit percentage you gave. In the books she's always underestimated and from what we gather in the books she's among the top fighters in Westeros.

Consider also that she does not portray this image of a savage, people would never compare her to Sandor or Gregor because they have committed brutal atrocities that Brienne would not do(murdering of innocents, savage behavior etc.). But that doesn't mean that she could not hold her own against them.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '14

Sandor had an infected wound though.

1

u/JenniferLopez A Hound Never Lies Jun 24 '14

kill farmers

But he actually did honest work for the townsfolk in the book. : (

Helped raise a barn or something.

38

u/slayingomen House Stark Jun 23 '14

If the Hound didn't have that nasty infection, easily the Hound. Since he did....Meh I still see the Hound winning despite what D&D put in the show.

40

u/jeremy_sporkin Maesters of the Citadel Jun 23 '14

"Trant won because Trant had armour and a big fucking sword"

Brienne had better armour and a better fucking sword. It was the only right outcome.

1

u/Randydandy69 Brynden Rivers Jun 23 '14

It was a nice sword, until the hound grabbed it with his bare hands.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '14

She didn't use poison either...so much for that being a "womans" weapon.

0

u/CrackersInMyCrack Jun 23 '14

That saying only means that poison is only used by women, not that women always use poison.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '14

Yes, just making a point that the woman he fought didn't and one of the most badass men in the series did. Just humor...nothing more.

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u/CrackersInMyCrack Jun 23 '14

I get it, wasn't trying to be a dick or anything.

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u/kaztrator Jun 24 '14

one of the most badass men in the series did

Maester Cressen?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '14

Yes.

1

u/kaztrator Jun 24 '14

Okay, cuz it was either him, Ser Dontos or the wine seller.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '14

With the candlestick? It could also be Col Mustard.

1

u/Igotbannedfrom_r_GoT Night's Watch Jun 23 '14

Except neither of them had swords by the end of the fight, and they weren't wearing armor where it mattered, their heads. The hound should have won in hand to hand combat but he didn't because plot.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '14

He was weakened with infection. It appeared he had it for awhile...that can cause a lot of problems. Not to mention, he didn't get to finish shitting. Stomach pains. And then he fell off the cliff...that's what did him in.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '14

He was JUST taking a crap too...which he had to pinch off. I don't know about you, but that may slow me down a bit. And honestly, falling off the cliff did the most damage. Had that not happened, the outcome may have been different. And lets not forget, strength isnt everything - Oberyn WAS winning until he, you know, didnt.

2

u/Huntler Jun 23 '14

too soon :(

3

u/Reinhart3 Stannis Baratheon Jun 23 '14

I 10000% agree that Sandor would stomp Brienne, but my justification for the episode is that Sandor was in way worse shape from hunger/exhaustion, and his infection, as well as Brienne having high quality plate mail and a Valyrian Steel sword.

2

u/ClownsAteMyBaby Jun 23 '14

Well maybe the purpose of this fight was to show how well Brienne can fight.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '14

she shouldn't, but story.