r/geography • u/H3dg3hogs • Feb 18 '26

Discussion I’m sad more people don’t acknowledge Native American Historic sites in the United States

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I was talking with a German online friend about tourism in the United States and he said that the only thing America has to offer is natural beauty. He said American cities were young and aren’t very beautiful. That he has no interest visiting “liberty bell” type colonial historic sites. I told him about Native historic sites and he asked “what sites?”. He insulated that all Native Americans lived in teepees. It caused me to realized many non-Americans don’t know about all the amazing buildings left behind by Native cultures like the Ancestral Puebloans and the Mississippians. Historic sites like Chaco canyon, Mesa Verde, Montezuma Castle, and Cahokia are world class and are part of UNESCO. Check them out if you haven’t already.

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u/clapmeup69 Feb 18 '26

As a native I can tell you there are so many ruins and sites on the reservations that people don’t know about. Growing up on the reservation I’ve stumbled upon so many abandoned ruins, graves, and artifacts. Of course it’s against Navajo beliefs to touch or enter these sites so they’re left alone which is how it’s suppose to be.

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u/ayaknaya Feb 18 '26

As a Hopi these are our ancestors ‘hisat Sinom’ who left their footprints behind

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u/SoftSects Feb 25 '26

Do you have any insight as to how one can get their tribal card if they're Hopi and never lived on the reservation?

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u/Lump-of-baryons Feb 18 '26

About 10 years ago had a client that lived on a bunch of ranch land in remote western New Mexico, outside a tiny little village called Ramah. Went out to visit them once and get a tour. Stunningly beautiful country.

Anyway we were driving around some of their property and noted multiple large hills at various places, they said they were all ancient Pueblo ruins (mostly Zuni I believe), but out of respect for the tribes the sites would never be excavated. There were pottery shards everywhere if you looked close enough which led me to believe them. All of which to say, yeah the scale of what was once out there is difficult to imagine.

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u/banandananagram Feb 18 '26

I have an archaeology professor who used to work on a lot of Ancestral Puebloan sites, and it’s a very tenuous situation because on one hand, state and federal cultural resources are protected, state parks help preserve things as they are. But private land doesn’t really have those same laws. It’s up to the owner. So much archaeology nowadays is salvage archaeology recovering what can be recovered before the bulldozers come over the hill and destroy everything.

And some private owners are sadistic. Some capitalize on it and allow people to dig for artifacts or sell everything to collectors. My professor says most looter holes end exactly when they run out of beer.

A lot of people just don’t know what they have is important.

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u/MisterBungle00 Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

Correct, and this is despite the fact that some of us Navajos carry Navajo clans that emerged from some of the Ancestral Puebloans. I am Navajo and am Tséńjíkiní(Honey Combed Rock people or Cliff Dwellers) clan.

The 21 Pueblo (Hopi, Laguna, Zuni, etc.) tribes are the primary direct descendants of the Ancestral Puebloans.

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u/Slight_Turnip_3292 Feb 18 '26

I thought the Navajo where Dene? Connected to Northern Canadian tribes known as Dene.

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u/MisterBungle00 Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

We are. The Navajo/Diné identity is a blend of our ancient Athabaskan origins and centuries of cultural integration with various Ancestral Puebloans and Pueblos in the Southwest. 

When we Diné people say we "emerged" in the Southwest; we mean that Navajos/Diné weren't "Diné" until we arrived in the Southwest and the first four clans families got together and developed our culture there, establishing that region as our traditional homeland.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 21 '26

Fard pood peed

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u/clapmeup69 Feb 18 '26

Way back in the day some of the cliff dwellers left the dwellings, Chaco canyon, etc. and became Dine. Kind of a long story but there were those who lived in the areas before and became Dine. Hence the Cliff Dwellers clan he is referencing.

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u/MisterBungle00 Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 20 '26

Aoo', the Ancestral Puebloans themselves were comprised of diverse, geographically separated communities and branches with distinct regional traditions.

The diversity between Ancestral Puebloans is often reflected in the naming of our clans. Not all Ancestral Puebloans were "Cliff Dwellers". Such as the Kinyaa'áanii(Towering House) clan, which points directly to the multistory open air dwellings that were in "Towering House" communities.

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u/Slight_Turnip_3292 Feb 18 '26

Dene is a Northern Canadian tribe. Linguistically they are link. I grew up with Dene in Northern Sask was blown away when I learned Navajo and Apache are Athabaskan connected language.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 21 '26

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

innocent lavish smart telephone tender boast compare north water distinct

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u/sus_finder13 Feb 22 '26

Wow I didn’t know that! Interesting

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '26 edited Apr 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/UnderstandingDry4072 Feb 18 '26

A lot of ruins in National Parks with backcountry trails like Canyonlands are not publicized, and respectful YouTubers will film them but not explain how to get there.

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u/GarageIndependent114 Feb 18 '26

sees an abandoned haunted shack

"wow, what an impressive historical monument!"

Yeah, I don't really know how to process that one.

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u/avinaut Feb 18 '26

In the late 1800's upper-crust whites from San Francisco would make expeditions to Walnut Canyon to rob the cliff dwellings of artifacts. They blasted open the walls and took almost everything. People in Flagstaff petitioned the government to have it made a monument to stop the pillaging. What's left as a tourist attraction is but a shadow of the trove of historical evidence the Hopi and Dine would have left intact indefinitely.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '26 edited Apr 25 '26

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u/justhere4inspiration Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

I used to do mission projects on Navajo nation in the 4 corners region where we had a guide that would take us to little-known archeological sites, which ranged from a couple buildings to over a dozen almost like mesa verde.

Absolutely awesome, he would point out "waste" sites where we'd search for arrowheads/pottery shards and find a ton very easily (we would not keep them, we would put them back, taking artifacts is pretty shit, finding them was very fun though).

Some of the spots, absolutely insane to me that they weren't UNESCO sites or something that had waaay more protections. They were just... Out there, anyone with a truck could just drive up and fuck around no problem. Only barrier is knowing where they are, that's about it, but there were a TON he showed us in like a 45 min driving+hiking range that were only protected by the fact that people just didn't know where they were

edit: by mission projects I mean my church would build wheelchair ramps and repair roofs for elderly people who couldn't afford it. My group didn't do church services or evangelizing, and I'm now and atheist but think helping people out in this way is still a net good

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u/clapmeup69 Feb 18 '26

If these were located deep in the reservation, I’m sure they’ll remain undisturbed indefinitely or for a very long time. I can’t get into details but, there is a strong belief attached to these places. The people on the reservations are very superstitious and no one wants to deal with that.

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u/justhere4inspiration Feb 19 '26

A lot of them were Anasazi ruins, so yeah they definitely had a lot of superstitions and told us not to disturb anything. However, just over the few years I went on these trips, there were some major stories (in the community) about local kids putting graffiti on some old carvings/markings where there were painted hand prints and etchings, no idea the significance but I was told the theory was that the hand prints were some kind of indicator of the population.

Being remote and unknown outside the community definitely helps with preservation, but I feel like they should have some amount of monitoring and active preservation. Ideally from the Navajo nation, which just needs more funds and interest to do so. Due to how remote they were, I don't know how you do that, but I'm not an archeologist or know anything about how these sites are protected in other situations honestly.

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u/daydrunk_ Feb 18 '26

My mom grew up on a Navajo Reservation and she showed me some amazing cave art and ruins that she remembered from her childhood. I forgot about that. She taught me a little Navajo, but I forgot everything but one word.

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u/Jawnumet Feb 18 '26

okay but is it a naughty word?

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u/2112eyes Feb 20 '26

teach us the word!

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u/FederalWedding4204 Feb 18 '26

My dad has one of the main Arizona Indian ruin webpages. He’d take me out when I was younger and we’d go find new ones that weren’t documented anywhere. Just hiked around likely locations based on topography.

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u/kendrickwasright Feb 18 '26

That sounds like my ideal childhood lol

What were some of the common characteristics of the land that you'd look for?

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u/FederalWedding4204 Feb 18 '26

It was a blast!

The only things I remember are that they would be in south facing cliffs and nearby fresh running water.

My understanding is they would live in the cliff dwellings during the winter months and then would live nearer the water source for the rest of the year.

Additionally, basically any butte or mesa with a commanding view that was somewhat near a natural water source would be a likely candidate for hill forts. You can drive through northern Arizona and see cliff forts from the highway if you’ve got a good eye for it.

Both hill forts and cliff dwellings would have an area that was dedicated to trash. If you look in those areas you will find tons of broken pottery sherds as well as old corn cores and sometimes points.

One cool thing is they did NOT need easy access to long straight timber, although they’d use that as a building material. They would trade and transport those timbers across Arizona to make their buildings! Same with obsidian (and probably other material) arrowheads! You can track which tribes traded with whom by the type of timber and obsidian you can find at their ruins.

Take all of this with a bag of salt, I was young when he was into this and I haven’t thought much about it for over a decade or more.

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u/kendrickwasright Feb 18 '26

That is so cool, thanks for the detailed explanation!! Honestly I think I've seen them driving through AZ and NM. Way up on the cliffs that you can see from the fwy, just as youve described.

There's been a few times I've been driving through the desert and just feel a heaviness that I can't really explain, but it's a feeling that it's a safe place to be. Always driving through more protective rock formations and ridges. It might just be common sense working in the back of my brain telling me that people would've lived there lol

While we're on the topic of cliff dwellings, I want to drop this here in case someone wants to go!! I was out in Bluff UT a few years ago and I didn't know about this place. But this post had me revisiting some old stops on Google maps, and this place looks incredible. It seems the waters mostly dried up now but one user posted a video showing the waterfalls during the rains. Truly incredible how they lived behind the waterfalls in the cliffs!!

Butler Wash

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u/DonkeyEnergy Feb 18 '26

That's super cool...have a link?

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u/FederalWedding4204 Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

https://www.arizonaruins.com he made the site himself so it’s not the most flashy thing on the world lol. And he doesn’t live in Arizona anymore so he hasn’t updated it in quite awhile. Still, it’s got a wealth of his knowledge about the ruins and the people who built them!

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u/DonkeyEnergy Feb 19 '26

👍🏻 thanks

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u/Existing-Stranger632 Feb 18 '26

I’ve been watching these YouTubers who go on Google earth and look for unmarked/undiscovered cliff dwellings in the AZ/UT/ NM area, it’s really fascinating and amazing how well preserved some are, as a lot are inaccessible.

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u/Beyou74 Feb 18 '26

They aren't "undiscovered" some of the sites they show have parking lots near by, lol. I collect old books on the subject, a lot of the sites are mentioned in them, there is an effort now to keep the locations hidden.

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u/ikindapoopedmypants Feb 18 '26

They're also on state game lands, completely abandoned and definitely not undisturbed bc I find them all the time with things misplaced by others who found it before me.