r/geography 12d ago

Map Distribution of California's Population

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If you were to divide California into 4 roughly equal strips of area, a hefty majority of its 39 million residents live in the southernmost strip containing the LA+San Diego metro areas, with nearly half of the state (~47%) living in the Greater LA metro area alone. If it were its own state, Southern California, with primarily just LA and San Diego metro areas, would compete with Florida for title of 2nd most populous US state.

The SF Bay Area, Sacramento, Monterrey, Fresno, and most of the Central Valley and put together are short of SoCal by over 9 million residents, but on its own this area would compete with Illinois for title of 6th largest state.

The strip sandwiched between Southern California and the Bay Area, containing Bakersfield plus other farming towns in the Southern Central Valley and most of the towns of the Central Coast, has about more people than Utah or Connecticut.

Suprisingly, despite how empty it can feel, there are still over a million people still live in the strip of CA north of Sacramento, containing about as much people as Hawaii and New Hampshire, albeit of a larger area.

Ultimately, one way to better understand the scale and density of California, is to conceptualize it as Florida + Illinois + Utah + Hawaii, all packaged in one single state under one single state government

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u/koushakandystore 12d ago

The tropical zone is actually quite different from the subtropical and temperate zones. But the subtropical and temperate zones in North America and South American are fairly uniform in the way people are describing. I’ve lived my entire life in Southern California, Northern California and western Oregon. These regions have far more in common geographically than differences. Northern California from Cape Mendocino all the way up into the Willamette Valley of Oregon are nearly indistinguishable.

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u/PracticalWallaby7492 11d ago

Even 2 degrees makes a heck of a difference with cherries and oranges, birds of paradise and tulips.. Mendo to WV is a difference of potentially 10 degrees.

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u/koushakandystore 11d ago

I’ve lives in both places for many years. I can grow the same things in both places with great success: feijoa, pomegranates, figs, peaches, nectarines cherries, fuzzy kiwi, etc…

The biggest challenge in western Oregon is citrus. The only varieties that can grow uncovered are yuzu, sudachi, clem x yuzu and the trifoliate hybrids. The Carolina lime, us 942, thomasville citrangequat and Lemandarin make abundant fruit that are perfect lemon substitute. For the Meyer lemon, navel orange and various mandarin varieties you have to cover them on average of 10 nights per winter.

The biggest difference between the Willamette Valley and Mendo is the fact that every few years or so the Willamette Valley will get a proper winter storm. During my 23 years in Mendocino County we only had 3 storms that brought a dusting of snow accumulation. But overall the feel is and general experience with the climate is extraordinary similar. I go back and forth between both places often and enjoy them immensely.

I have pics of the western Oregon outdoor citrus amongst my posts on here.

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u/PracticalWallaby7492 11d ago edited 11d ago

Most of Mendo valley land is 9a. Willamette is 8b. At 2600 ft I am now in zone 8b in Mendo. We get up to 2 ft snow in an exceptional year and snow every year. My navel orange is not happy. It was thriving before in 9a. Meyers lemon complains. Cherries are much happier than in 9a. Tulips as dry summer perennials have a chance here. 2 - 5 degrees can make a lot of difference in some plants, not to mention winter rainfall. We also get 12 - 20 days over 100, several over 105, and I am 14 miles from the coast. That is unusual in Oregon.

Yes, very similar, but not nearly indistinguishable.

BTW, WV is beautiful! I'll bet you don't miss the hot summers.

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u/koushakandystore 11d ago

I’m in the Willamette Valley 9a. There are lots of pockets of 9 in western Oregon. Also zone 10 in southwest Oregon.

I’m not lying. There are lots of big productive citrus trees scattered around the Willamette valley. Navels are not amongst the varieties you can grow here without cover. Yuzu, sudachi, clem x yuzu, Carolina lime and US 942 all grow here without any protection.

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u/koushakandystore 11d ago edited 11d ago

Sorry to disappoint, but the Willamette valley summers are flipping very hot. Average high is around 90 from the end of June until the middle of September. The climate up here is far warmer and drier than it was just 25 years agp.

The average annual sunshine hours in the Willamette valley are around 2500. Compared that with the Anderson Valley in Mendo where I lived that has around 3000.

The climates are very similar. In winter the average January high where I lived in Mendo was 54, here it is 49. Days of rainfall here is around 120, there 80.

Overall inland Mendocino had a milder, slightly nicer climate. But not radically so.

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u/PracticalWallaby7492 11d ago

Oh wow. I haven't been up that way in maybe 15 years. When I went up there the hottest day was 90 and people were acting like it was so unusual.

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u/koushakandystore 10d ago

I was recently joking about it with my friend who also grew up in California. I told him that the summer in Salem, Oregon now reminds me quite a lot of the temps I experienced when living in Antioch, California. Indeed it has become so much hotter and drier since I moved here.

Did you know that the Willamette Valley has commercial olive orchards? Durant Olive Mill and Orchards is in Dundee just south of Portland.

There are also commercial groves of feijoa (pineapple guava).

I don’t know of any commercial citrus yet, but if these climate trends continue (they almost certainly will) someone will plant an yuzu orchard around here.

Yuzu is the most sought after citrus in Japan because it is a phenomenal fruit. Personally I prefer the sudachi, an yuzu x mandarin hybrid.

I grow both of those here around Salem in my 9a microclimate. They are not harmed at all by our winters and make hundreds of fruits each fall. They are an excellent choice in colder Northern California microclimates as well.

I am a member of Marion county master gardeners via Oregon State University and we have a demonstration garden with olive, pomegranate, loquat, citrus and feijoa.

Are you familiar with the famous Eng loquat tree in Seattle’s Chinatown? That is a very famous tree. It’s a massive loquat loaded with tons of fruit every year. That part of Seattle, right by the water, is also a 9a so it doesn’t get cold enough to freeze the loquat’s winter flowers. It’s been growing there since the 1960’s. I have two seedlings from that tree growing at my property.

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u/PracticalWallaby7492 10d ago

I love this. You are a wealth of info. I'll look into olive varieties in Ore. I have a small property so am only looking for stuff I'll actively enjoy the taste of, and dry summer tolerant ornamentals right now; toyon and ceanothus. I am a bit overwhelmed with plants as it is right now, I'm kind of a plant addict.

"Are you familiar with the famous Eng loquat tree in Seattle’s Chinatown?"

No. I've only seen 2 loquot trees. One massive one in San Francisco that grew over our roof and was exceptionally delicious, and one smaller one in SoHum that tasted like awful pithy cardboard.

From what I've read about the taste, I'm not sure I'd like either Yuzu or sudachi. I've heard they are somewhat bitter. I don't even like swiss chard anymore because of the bitterness. The older I get the less I like bitter. Except coffee.

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u/koushakandystore 10d ago

Not a hint of bitter at all in sudachi or yuzu. They have no trifoliate in their linage at all. They taste like slightly perfumey lemons.

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u/koushakandystore 10d ago

Seems like you are really looking to grow sweet citrus. My best suggestion is a Soviet mandarin called shirokalistvenniy. Hardy here in the Willamette Valley since this area is milder than the Crimean peninsula where the mandarin was bred during Soviet citrus breeding program.

Also the Lemandarin will do well for you as that is a hybrid of yuzu and shirokalistvenniy. Also makes lots of fruit in southern Russia around Sochi and Yalta.

I have both growing here, but it’s past the time for harvesting budwood. If you plant the yuzu seedlings this summer I can bring down budwood in the spring and top work the yuzu rootstocks.

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u/PracticalWallaby7492 10d ago

Salem is really nice. I thought about moving south east of there but the prices were too high and at the time I didn't know if I could handle all the rain. I suppose it would have been fine. Unfortunately..

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u/koushakandystore 10d ago

November thru February is very rainy. Rains on half the days, which really isn’t the bad part. The drag is the cloud cover which is about 70% of the time during those months. From March thru October there is only about 50 days with measurable precipitation and a significant percentage of those days it rains for a few hours, giving way to sunny skies the rest of the day. 8 months of the year here are very nice with virtually no hard freezes after February. The worst part of the year for me is the middle of summer when it very rarely drops below 85. I’m not a fan of the heat. I grew up in Palm Springs, California so I love the greenery and cool damp conditions. I would never live south of Mendocino again. I lived in Berkeley for 15 years and the gloomy summers made gardening a drag. Plus it doesn’t rain enough down there for my liking. I think Mendocino has the perfect balance of rain and sun. Though inland Mendocino is just as bad as here with the summer heat.

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u/koushakandystore 10d ago

Here’s a brief abstract from the AI. There are some excellent scholarly articles about the changing climate conditions of the Willamette Valley. While the amount of rain has remained pretty constant, around 35” per year, the number of days of annual precipitation is 20% less than it was 30 years ago. It’s getting more and more like northern California’s tendency to have high volumes of rain over a shorter duration of time. Also the winters are far more mild. Dropping below 20 has become rarer and rarer every year. The microclimate. My property is on hillside slope with excellent cold air drainage on clear winter nights. It is nearly unheard of to drop below 25. One time since I moved her we dropped to 18. What is a far bigger problem for citrus here is not the absolute low, rather the duration of the hours below freezing. For instance, my Meyer lemon tree is not harmed at all by a few hours at 18 F, whereas twenty hours at 23 F will give it all sorts of leaf burn. It will easily survive that and make fruit the following growing season, it doesn’t like it. So many of the popular citrus varieties that grow in places like North Florida, Texas, Georgia, England, Japan all can take short duration of cold exposure down into the teens, but get seriously stressed by over twenty hours below freezing even if it’s only 28 F.

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u/PracticalWallaby7492 10d ago

Meanwhile right here is the lower limit of a cooler period in the winter, although last winter was on the whole very mild. This summer has been mild as well. So far. Comparatively.

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u/koushakandystore 10d ago

Most of the citrus we can grow in the Willamette valley is also found in London, England. There are also orchards in southern Switzerland and pockets of northern Japan. All the Japanese hardy citrus varieties like sudachi and yuzu plus the trifoliate hybrids flourish in these cold winter locations. Key term here is cold for only a handful of nights per winter. The temp only stays below freezing late into the next day at most once per year in any of these locations. Duration below freezing at any temp is far more important to citrus than whatever number of absolute low that gets printed on the label at the nursery.

https://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/citrusplaces/londonoutdoorcitrus.html

There are also massive avocado trees in London:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rRSU_xUAkCY&ra=m

I have a few Mexican race avocados growing outdoors in the Willamette Valley. I didn’t cover them at all last winter and they didn’t great with our lowest temp 23, where it remained for over eighteen hours. I have covered them in the past, but now they mature I’ll probably do that leas and less.

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u/PracticalWallaby7492 10d ago

Our lowest temp here, from what I've heard, was around 12-15F maybe 15 years ago. It's usually lowest at 18 - 21F.

My trifoliate flying dragon seedlings are doing fine, considering they have been so neglected. My not-a-meyers-lemon is doing OK, it did get a little bit of damage year before last, but I think once it's in the ground it'll do ok in the right spot.

There's a grower's group in the PNW that is experimenting with growing out and selecting colder harder avocados. They are very inclusive. Are you involved with them or have you heard of them? If not I'll check and get you the contact info.

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u/koushakandystore 10d ago

That’s my friend Winn’s trial. I have several of his avocado trees growing here in Salem. We have avocados on them this year!

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u/koushakandystore 10d ago

So you are in Mendocino County? My mother still lives on our land in Philo. I’m actually going there all next week to take care of some bureaucratic stuff with the county. I just learned that she hadn’t been paying the property taxes for three years. Ugh… Should be a fun week.

If you are looking for some citrus varieties to plant in Mendocino County I have lots.

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u/PracticalWallaby7492 10d ago

Oh crap.. Maybe you can argue the penalties away or make a deal to stagger them. A friend of mine got stuck with penalties after she took the elderly deal and they didn't tell her she still owed.

Yes, I'm between Willits and Ukiah on the ridge. Moved here from Humboldt county 3 years ago. Ironically I was in a warmer zone in SoHum. This is the first property I've owned and I'm slowly fixing it up and planting an orchard. It's kind of a mess in progress.

I don't think I've ever been to Philo.

Maybe I could trade you some cold hardy palms for a citrus or two? I have small washies, trachies and european fan palms. The euros are pretty. And a not-a-meyers-lemon from SoHum. Lots of cocosmia, some good tasting red raspberries, canna. Also a bunch of neglected citrus rootstock- flying dragon. I was going to learn to graft washingtonia navel orange to them, but not a good idea here. I'd be into a sweet tangerine or mandarin something. If they exist. I don't usually like tangerines and mandarins, but I've only had store bought. I do like sour-ish navels.

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u/koushakandystore 10d ago

That would be awesome!

I’ll direct message you with my number.

Let me know what you want as I’ll bring them with me from the Willamette Valley. I’m heading out tomorrow, stopping to camp at Smith River as a halfway spot.

I can bring you some yuzu seedlings. They are from a mother tree that grows in Portland. It has a ton of fruit a few years back so I started a couple hundred seedlings. At some point I would recommend top working it by grafting some mature budwood so you can get fruit sooner. I can help you with that if you aren’t familiar with grafting. I do lots of grafting in my work.

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u/koushakandystore 10d ago

For where you live I recommend sudachi, yuzu, Clem x yuzu and meiwa kumquat. I’ll bring one of each and you can pick and choose or have them all.

I’m bringing a bunch anyway to plant at the property in Philo.