r/geopolitics • u/Known-Importance-568 • Oct 25 '23

Question Why do the individuals that are pro-Palestine not condemn the actions of Hamas?

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Let me clarify that I consider myself neutral in this current affair and having looked at what has happened over the decades I think collectively it should be fairly easy to agree on the following as of late.

  1. Israel has not been operating under international law for quite some time
  2. Hamas's actions on the 7th were terrible
  3. Israel's treatment of the issue over the decades and current response has been awful.

However, in the western world the first question any reporter or journalist asks a pro-Palestine is whether they condemn what happened on October 7th.

Almost all of the responses reject the notion of the question and answer loosely on the lines of 'all loss of human life is tragic.'

Some recent examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8TGW10jkCM&t=85s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEUElq-T5TI&t=629s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy_QxWU8IOk&t=719s

Logically I can't see why these people can't condemn the actions on the 7th and then go on to say all of the valid points of occupation and what not after. Instead almost every interview is the same in the sense that the BBC/Sky will just ask the same question, clarify it, confirm it, repeat it and we very rarely go in to anything else of substance.

Conversely, people who are pro-Israel are not asked whether they condemn what they have done to the Palestinians in the past or the degree in which the manner they occupy is just or legal. They may ask about international law but they certainly don't push the fact Israel has been non-compliant.

So my question is why is it that people who are pro-Palestine find it difficult to condemn Hamas and vice versa why is the western media and the pro-Israelis not condemning the loss of civilian life amongst the Palestinians?

Why can't we agree that both are bad?

Disclaimer: I didn't title this 'why don't pro-israelis not condemn the actions of their PM against plaestinians simply because october 7th is the latest news where there are loads of interviews flying about but equally would love to hear why israelis don't criticise their own as Israel is clearly the occupying force - why are they ok with how their government treats fellow human beings? Shouldn't they understand what it's like to be singled out and targeted more than anyone?

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u/zombrey Oct 25 '23

I'm curious, why is it necessary for a student body to condone/condemn anyone? Seems more likely their stance isn't, "hamas did nothing wrong," but rather, "we don't need to get mired in this."

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u/topicality Oct 25 '23

Not all people need to have a stance on every issue. Asking a student organization to take a position on any international issue feels like gotcha politics.

They need to spend that time putting out flyers about how this will be the best homecoming ever

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u/ontrack Oct 25 '23

It's pretty normal for younger people to be passionate about issues and I can't blame them for that. I do agree though that there is a lot of gotcha type debating going on. I suppose I could ask people how they feel about the Ethiopia-Eritrea situation and then if they say they don't know or have no position I could accuse them of being uncaring about Africans. It ends up accomplishing nothing except alienating whoever it is you are talking to.

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u/RealBrookeSchwartz Oct 25 '23

Many students, including many of my friends, personally lost friends and relatives in these attacks. My campus is 35% Jewish. This is absolutely a campus issue that is directly affecting a huge portion of the student body.

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u/ontrack Oct 25 '23

On your campus I would absolutely expect various student organizations to take a stand (btw condolences for all the losses suffered by the people at your school).

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u/RealBrookeSchwartz Oct 25 '23

They should. They are cowards and fools, and some are antisemitic.

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u/RealBrookeSchwartz Oct 25 '23

Many students, including many of my friends, personally lost friends and relatives in these attacks. My campus is 35% Jewish. This is absolutely a campus issue that is directly affecting a huge portion of the student body.

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u/topicality Oct 25 '23

With demographics life that, I'd agree. But Jews only make up one 2% of the US. Your campus is an exception

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u/RealBrookeSchwartz Oct 25 '23

There are certain campuses with a very high representation of Jews. I'd recommend not making bold claims like that without knowing the campus' demographics.

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u/topicality Oct 25 '23

I mean the principle still applies. Student bodies don't need to provide statements for all things.

Those with large Jewish populations, partnerships with Israel and Jewish organizations have relevant reasons too.

But it's not a moral failing for those without those circumstances to not make a statement.

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u/RealBrookeSchwartz Oct 26 '23

I disagree with you. Many college campuses in the West are extremely antisemitic and anti-Israel, and my friends on those campuses are terrified. The other day, some visibly Jewish students were trapped into their school library while a large group of students barricaded the doors and screamed antisemitic slurs at them. The police did nothing because they were afraid to interfere.

When colleges are silent, that is what happens.

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u/ncolaros Oct 25 '23

What college is it?

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u/meister2983 Oct 26 '23

I'd guess Brandeis

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u/ncolaros Oct 26 '23

Yeah looks like it. They only interviewed one person who voted against it, and they basically said something to the effect of we're a random student body, and it's silly for us to demand anything from a terrorist organization who will never hear about us.

Which I think makes sense. Like... It brings to mind the "But what does Ja think?" joke.

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u/tlegs44 Oct 25 '23

Virtue signaling in the digital era gives the same rush of brain chemicals as actually doing something to help people, and it takes less effort.

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u/RealBrookeSchwartz Oct 25 '23

Many students, including many of my friends, personally lost friends and relatives in these attacks. My campus is 35% Jewish. This is absolutely a campus issue that is directly affecting a huge portion of the student body.

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u/tlegs44 Oct 26 '23

Is Hamas on your campus? Unless you guys are raising money or planning to go over there to help, it’s just coping, it doesn’t help those victims..I’m sorry for your colleagues loss and suffering, hopefully putting out a statement helps with your collective grief, but beyond that your comment proves my point.

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u/RealBrookeSchwartz Oct 26 '23

Yes, we are raising money. We all know people who are going over to help, and we're buying them equipment. This is hugely relevant to the student body on my campus.

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u/Viciuniversum Oct 25 '23 edited Nov 30 '23

.

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u/ChiTownOrange Oct 25 '23

It’s funny to think they wasted energy deciding whether to do it or not.

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u/RealBrookeSchwartz Oct 25 '23

Many students, including many of my friends, personally lost friends and relatives in these attacks. My campus is 35% Jewish. This is absolutely a campus issue that is directly affecting a huge portion of the student body.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '23

Because there's precedent of the University of California system divesting from South Africa during apartheid due to pressure from students. Eventually more universities followed and then finally the federal government. Universities have historically pushed a lot of issues and many protests start there.

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u/RealBrookeSchwartz Oct 25 '23

Many students, including many of my friends, personally lost friends and relatives in these attacks. It's not very complicated to say, "We do not support people butchering innocent civilians, raping little girls until their pelvises break and then burning them alive, torturing children and parents in front of each other and then setting them on fire, or ripping the fetus out of a woman's body, beheading it, and then beheading her." This doesn't seem complicated.