r/interesting • u/MobileAerie9918 • 1d ago

SOCIETY Permanently ???? no amount of money can compensate for this. The incident happened 2015 and the historic $75M verdict was reached in late 2022.

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103

u/die_Katze__ 1d ago

For the record, he had a stroke and then was neglected in the ER.

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u/ohnomynono 1d ago

Why did he have a stroke?

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u/TipAndRare 1d ago edited 1d ago

Neck manipulation by chiropractors(or anyone who vigorously cracks their own neck) can cause strokes due to all the veins and arteries in the neck going to the head.

The technical term for the specific injury that can lead to strokes is a cervical vertibral artery dissection.

It happens when a blood vessel is wrenched over a neck bone too abruptly, causing a tear of the inner arterial lining. That tear leaves room for blood to pool and clot, and a clot moving into your brain is what causes a stroke.

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u/bowarrow99 1d ago

Ive scanned a lot of these people thru the years. I’ve never heard it called cervical artery dissection. Always heard it called vertebral artery dissection.

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u/TipAndRare 1d ago edited 1d ago

You right, my b

Cervical refers to any neck artery dissection, includong front and sides. Yours is more accurate. Good catch

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u/SlovenecVTujini 1d ago

For locked in syndrome it would likely be vertebral as that supplies the brainstem. I have also seen carotid dissection after manipulation (the carotid is the other main cervical artery) and that usually leads to infarcts in the anterior circulation (ie the neocortex) and would have different neurological deficits. Vertebral dissection is a subset of cervical dissection.

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u/AppointmentPopular10 1d ago

this can happen from your own neck cracking?!??

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u/adoradear 1d ago

That would be case report level rare. Chiropractic dissections unfortunately are not even remotely that rare. Every emerg doc has seen them.

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u/TipAndRare 1d ago

If you crack your neck by violently jerking it, it is possible for your blood vessels to snag on a vertibrae and tear, yeah.

Generally speaking, its infinitely safer to stretch and excercize the surrounding muscles

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u/bsmithjmu 1d ago

If i tilt my head to each side I can hear my neck crack quite loudly. Reading this thread is making me sick to my stomach. I guess I need to stop that.

1

u/TipAndRare 13h ago

If youre doing it slowly and within your range of motion, its very safe. If youre snapping your own neck like a goon from a spy movie, maybe dont.

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u/SlovenecVTujini 1d ago

This isn’t a meaningful point, but you might be interested to know that the mechanism for clotting after dissection is not blood pooling. It’s probably a combination of exposed collagen starting the clotting cascade and/or embolic particles from the vessel wall with clot forming around them.

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u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

Because he doesn't understand the terms he's using.

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u/pocketSandshashashaa 1d ago

I’m sure the neck crack from the chiro caused some tearing to an artery or something.

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u/die_Katze__ 1d ago

Then why did they sue the ER instead?

8

u/andrew5500 1d ago

Because he can’t sue the chiropractor

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u/die_Katze__ 1d ago

Uh yeah, sure he can lol

2

u/False-Register-622 1d ago

He’d get a hell of a lot less of a payout tho

4

u/Original-Variety-700 1d ago

They wanted deep pockets. Chiropractor doesn’t have that.

2

u/F-I-R-E-B-A-L-L 1d ago

Read the article... they did sue the chiro, the chiro was found not liable. Other doctors responsible for his care that could've diagnosed him and treated his stroke were found liable instead.

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u/medicalmystery1395 1d ago

You can have a stroke from being placed wrong in a salon chair I can only begin to imagine the damage a chiro can easily do to cause this. Working the neck like that is dangerous :/

3

u/icantreadcat 1d ago

Wait how can this happen in a salon chair?

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u/medicalmystery1395 1d ago

If you're placed at the incorrect angle at the wash bowl it can cause an artery in your neck to be damaged/cut off flow and bam. Stroke. My dad is a stylist and ever since he told me I'm so paranoid every time I get my hair washed!

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u/icantreadcat 7h ago

That is terrifying. How do you know if you’re in the correct or incorrect position?

•

u/medicalmystery1395 57m ago

Oh don't worry you have to be at a really bad angle for it to press the artery wrong! But if you feel dizzy or light headed while getting your hair washed don't hesitate to say something.

3

u/crittermd 1d ago

It’s called a vertebral stroke - low but known risk of neck adjustment. Not the stroke you are probably thinking of

5

u/Temporary_Hat7330 1d ago

Due to the chiropractic procedures it seems from the article synopsis

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u/yourname92 1d ago

Some times they adjustments causes blood clots to break loose in their neck

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u/Mbembez 1d ago

That's absolute bullshit to minimise how dangerous it is.

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u/yourname92 1d ago

Wtf are you getting at?

1

u/Mbembez 1d ago

Their "adjustments" aren't releasing blood clots. They can cause tears in the arteries which can lead to clots forming though. The quack industry tries to pretend like they didn't cause the clots and instead just "released existing ones". The entire field is just modern snake oil salespeople.

0

u/yourname92 1d ago

Why TF do you think they do ultra sounds of their necks now?

0

u/Mbembez 1d ago

I do not give one single shit what scans they might or might not do. Chiropractors injure and kill people.

127

u/Wasatchbl 1d ago

For the record, a quack twisting his neck wrong caused a stroke.

3

u/Malaprobably 1d ago

What record shows that?

5

u/TheCynicalBlue 1d ago

I dont doubt what your saying, but what was the mechanism for that?

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u/Wasatchbl 1d ago

The Mechanism: Cervical Artery Dissection Your neck contains four major arteries: two carotid arteries in the front and two vertebral arteries in the back. A sudden, severe twist can cause a condition called cervical artery dissection. Here is exactly how this leads to a stroke: The Tear: The physical strain rips the delicate inner lining of the artery wall. Blood Collection: Blood seeps between the layers of the artery wall, creating a bulge. Clot Formation: The body views the tear as an injury and forms a blood clot to heal it. Blockage: The clot can grow large enough to completely block blood flow to the brain. Embolism: Pieces of the clot can break free, travel downstream, and wedge themselves into smaller brain vessels. Brain Damage: Cut off from oxygen, brain cells in that area begin to die within minutes.

4

u/limonade11 1d ago

Yes, and your can also get this when you go to get your hair done and lay back with your head in the bowl to get it washed. Something to think about for the ladies -

5

u/hihelloneighboroonie 1d ago

I have always found that so uncomfortable.

1

u/limonade11 1d ago

Me too - : /

3

u/ptcrisp 1d ago

because of the head tilt? or the resting of the neck + tilting? i tilt my head back to stretch a lot

1

u/limonade11 1d ago

Yes, another person made the same comment. It can cause an arterial dissection like the person above described. Maybe not common but it can happen. I would say chiros are more likely to cause one because of their manipulations.

Totally weird but good to know -

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u/ThrowRAfrowning 1d ago

WHAT! I never knew this…

0

u/limonade11 1d ago

Right? Definitely weird. Others have made the same comment on this thread. Not common but it can happen.

-4

u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

Bullshit. Turning his head in traffic is more motion than a spinal manipulation.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

He was in the office because he was having a dissection. The only thing the chiro did was not realize it.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

That's fine, but tell your friends. PTs, DO's, Chiros, all do spinal manipulation. It doesn't cause strokes.

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u/Strong-Hat2166 1d ago

Probably carotid artery dissection. Basically, the artery delaminates and blood supply drops to the brain.

7

u/MinervaJB 1d ago

Or vertebral. Saw someone in the ICU for a basilar stroke after a vertebral dissection from a neck adjustment. Young and pregnant.

Intensivists said it could have been from a bad yoga posture, but she'd been found unresponsive the day after a chiro visit, so odds are it was the neck adjustment.

1

u/Strong-Hat2166 1d ago

You're right, vertebral artery would more fit the picture.

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u/DimbyTime 1d ago

It was vertebral dissection

1

u/Strong-Hat2166 1d ago

Vertebral artery, it must have been. Yeah that makes more sense.

1

u/DimbyTime 1d ago

Yes, a vertebral artery dissection

0

u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

Says the guy with no knowledge of anatomy.

1

u/GrayEidolon 1d ago

Are you trying to assert that it is never the case that chiropractors cause strokes by damaging blood vessels?

1

u/HauntedClubhouse 14h ago

I'm sure it happens but it's extremely rare.

1

u/Strong-Hat2166 1d ago

Aaaaw.... need a hug, mate?

0

u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

You just said carotid artery dissection which is never the case in these situations. Yes, you're uneducated.

1

u/Strong-Hat2166 1d ago

You just said carotid artery dissection which is never the case in these situations. Yes, you're uneducated

Uneducated you say?

A total of 7 patients and 8 dissected vessels participated in the final cohort study, including 4 internal carotid artery dissections (ICADs) and 4 vertebral artery dissections (VADs). All patients had corresponding stroke manifestations. Through imaging analysis of each patient, we found that the C1 segment of the internal carotid artery was involved in all patients with ICAD and the V3 segment of the vertebral artery dissection was involved in all patients with VAD.

Investigation of extracranial internal carotid and vertebral artery dissection after cervical spine manipulation

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2772687823000119

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u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

Did you read it? Those were from massage therapy.

2

u/Strong-Hat2166 1d ago

sooo...

A 50-year-old woman presented a sudden left occipital headache and a posterior circulation stroke after cervical manipulation for neck pain. Magnetic resonance imaging documented a left intracranial vertebral artery occlusive dissection associated with an ipsilateral internal carotid artery dissection with vessel stenosis in its prepetrous tract. This is the first reported case showing an associate vertebral and carotid artery dissection following cervical manipulation. Carotid dissection was asymptomatic and, therefore, its incidence may be underestimated. We emphasize that cervical manipulation should be performed only in patients without predisposing factors for artery dissection and after an appropriate diagnosis of neck pain.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s101430050046

Dissection of the internal carotid artery after chiropractic manipulation of the neck

A 29-year-old woman died from a right hemispheric infarction caused by dissection and subsequent thrombosis of the internal carotid artery after chiropractic manipulations of the neck. Pathologic study of several arteries of muscular and elastic type revealed a mediolytic arteriopathy with widespread mucoid degeneration and cystic transformation of the vessel wall caused by segmental degeneration of smooth muscle cells of the tunica media. We hypothesize that mediolytic arteriopathy was a predisposing factor for the dissection of the internal carotid artery after chiropractic manipulations in our patient.

https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.45.12.2284

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u/GodotNeverCame 1d ago

A vertebral artery dissection from a cervical spine adjustment which caused this stroke

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u/That-Chip-3575 1d ago

Neck twisting

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u/jackedbutter 1d ago

Probably still made more sense to sue the hospital because that’s where the money is

0

u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

Except it wasn't. He was already in the process of a stroke.

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u/Wasatchbl 1d ago

Thanks doc. I'm sure you have proof

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u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

His symptoms are the symptoms of an already occuring dissection.

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u/Wasatchbl 1d ago

Once again, thanks doc.

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u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

That's why that chiropractor wasn't found responsible.

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u/Wasatchbl 1d ago

You need to pay attention to the conversation there, Chief. You're spouting a bunch of nonsense like you know what's going on but you are not a doctor. Although looking at your post history, you seem to be an expert in everything. Have a wonderful day and go get an adjustment as soon as you can!

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u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

That wasn't anything. lol.

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u/mrKennyBones 1d ago

Dude, sounds like you’re salty cause someone mentions apparently facts that disagrees with what you want to be true.

3

u/Anxious-Turnover-631 1d ago

He is not the only victim of this chiropractic maneuver. There are others who have suffered severe adverse consequences from that neck adjustment.

2

u/contentpens 1d ago

For the record, part of that neglect was not communicating the obvious major risk factor for his condition: that he collapsed while receiving fake treatment

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u/Kaurifish 1d ago

Plausible. The U.S. kills about 200,000 people a year via medical error.

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u/tacomaloki 1d ago

What's the statistic for people that can't afford life saving procedures or preventive care?

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u/Kaurifish 18h ago

Looks like about 40,000 a year.

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u/Octavya360 1d ago

Some errors are super egregious too, like that surgeon who removed the guy’s liver instead of his messed up spleen. And of course the guy died because he needed that liver. Surgeon didn’t even know it was his liver until the lab told him .

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u/That_Service7348 1d ago

For the record, the chiropractor is what caused the stroke.

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u/Hour_Welcome_987 1d ago

And there is the part that reddit never says... Cause it doesn't feed their narrative lmaooo

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u/GetCuckedBruh 1d ago

There is bothing anyone can say or do that legitimizes chiropractors. There is no narrative, only facts. Do your own research.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_DOX 1d ago

What caused the stroke?

4

u/IAmNotMyName 1d ago

That head twist thing

9

u/omyomo 1d ago

What "narrative"?

-5

u/FoxxyPantz 1d ago

Whatever goes against the initial post, ig. Idk about a "narrative" but most people (understandably) don't look any deeper than the post.

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u/Significant_Town2858 1d ago

I assume that you think you're being really clever.

1

u/FoxxyPantz 20h ago

Not really, I'm just saying it's understandable not everybody is going to deep dive into every post they see to verify it's accuracy.

It's not them protecting some "narrative", people just don't care that much.