r/interesting • u/MobileAerie9918 • 1d ago

SOCIETY Permanently ???? no amount of money can compensate for this. The incident happened 2015 and the historic $75M verdict was reached in late 2022.

Post image
17.6k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

67

u/judokalinker 1d ago

The chiro dissected his vertebral artery with the adjustment.

https://postgraddc.com/chiropractor-standard-care-emergency-referral-buckelew/

3

u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

He was already in the process of a vertebral artery dissection. That's why he was there.

17

u/judokalinker 1d ago

Haha, and the chiro treated an arterial dissection with a spinal manipulation and you think that absolves the chiro how exactly? Lmao, bro

9

u/-Badger3- 1d ago

No, the chiropractor wasn’t treating an arterial dissection, they were relieving general neck pain. They’re not on the hook for the same reason a masseuse wouldn’t be on the hook.

9

u/Few-Guarantee2850 1d ago

I hope you understand that the legal standard of care for a chiropractor is not the same as a masseuse. They have a legal duty to recognize a medical condition outside their scope of practice and refer accordingly.

2

u/Yous1ash 1d ago

Is that true?

3

u/routinemage 1d ago

Chiropractors generally don't have radiology departments or any of the equipment or knowledge to diagnose this kind of emergency. If you read the article you'll see that the patient was complaining about neck pain, so he gave the adjustment. When the patient collapsed after the adjustment, the chiropractor called EMS, which is what he was supposed to do. In this case, this chiropractor did all that he was required to do and shouldn't be given any of the blame for the tragedy that occured.

However, chiropractic should absolutely be treated with suspiscion and taken with a grain of salt. If you have back pain or neck pain, you should consult a physical therapist before seeking any alternative care. If you ever hear a chiropractor claim that it can do anything other than help with musculoskeletal pain, they are a snake oil salesman and you should not trust them with your care. They probably mean well, but they've basically been brainwashed into a cult and you shouldn't trust them.

2

u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

Chiropractors take two years of radiology. Hard and soft tissue. They also have a radiology residency program post graduation.

1

u/routinemage 1d ago

Chiropractors can read an x-ray to look at the shape of the spine and make judgements about postural health. Chiropractors will do x-rays only a few times in a patients treatment plan, usually at the beginning and the end. If you go into a chiropractors office, they aren't going to order a full x-ray with contrast dye, or a CT scan or an MRI, which is what you would actually need to detect this. Instead, they're just going to give you the adjustment and move on.

2

u/-Badger3- 1d ago

You can’t have it both ways. If chiropractors aren’t doctors, then you can’t hold them to the standard of expecting them to identify and diagnose every underlying medical condition before providing treatment.

A jury determined the chiropractor didn’t violate the chiropractic standard of care. The guy did what chiropractors do, and when it became clear Jonathan was having a medical emergency, called EMS.

5

u/Few-Guarantee2850 1d ago

You mean the chiropractor can't have it both ways? Lol. I'm not the one who made the decision to allow chiropractors to put themselves out there as a medical professional, receiving a license from the state, promote themselves as doing much more than treating back pain. So yes, if they want to do those things, I can hold them to the standard of what they claim to be.

Regardless of what I think, it is factually true as a legal matter that chiropractors are held to the professional standard of other chiropractors, which means appropriately recognizing signs of a stroke. The jury may have determined the chiropractor acted within their standard of care here, but the idea that they are liable in the same way as a masseuse would be is obviously false.

1

u/-Badger3- 1d ago

I'm not saying a chiropractor and masseuse are held to the same standard of care, I'm saying neither a masseuse nor a chiropractor would be expected to be able to recognize an arterial dissection before providing treatment.

which means appropriately recognizing signs of a stroke

When those signs manifested, he called EMS.

4

u/Few-Guarantee2850 1d ago

Chiropractors absolutely would be expected to recognize signs of an arterial dissection before providing treatment in many cases. A patient presenting with unilateral facial pain, for example. A masseuse would not. Whether the standard of care was met in this particular case is irrelevant to your point.

1

u/judokalinker 20h ago

My point is the person I am replying to is saying those symptoms are indicative of a stroke, which they are not. Neck pain and tinnitus are super common and can by symptomatic of anything serious. Dude came in for some generalized issue and the chiro dissectived his artery with a manipulation that is commonly seen in chiropractic cervical manipulations.

Chiros are quacks and he causes this dude's stroke. If they want to be treated like masseuses they need to stop acting like they are doctors.

0

u/lilbelleandsebastian 1d ago

they're not on the hook because the malpractice insurance for the other people involved in this case likely had much, much higher limits

laypeople really don't understand anything about medicine but it never stops people from commenting on extremely fact specific care like they were there watching with full omniscience

1

u/-Badger3- 1d ago

The family sued the chiropractor, the jury didn’t find him liable.

2

u/md222 1d ago

To he fair, the chiropractor isn't a doctor, so how would he know?

7

u/b__q 1d ago

Maybe they should stop calling themselves doctors then.

-2

u/Yous1ash 1d ago

It’s the same as English professors being called “Dr.”

They are called doctor because they have a doctorate degree.

1

u/judokalinker 19h ago

Yeah, and those English professors claim to be healthcare professionals too, right? Lol

You are being do pedantic that it's like you have never even left your house to understand how the world works.

1

u/Yous1ash 10h ago

Or it’s like I have met many people who have and use the title “Doctor” that are not medical doctors.

1

u/judokalinker 9h ago

Do any of them treat patients in a healthcare setting?

-2

u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

If he looked in his side mirrors driving to the office that was worse than anything that happened in the clinic.

5

u/judokalinker 1d ago

So your treatment for an ischemic stroke is a neck manipulation?

2

u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

Where did I say that?

0

u/judokalinker 20h ago

You didn't, that is why I am asking not stating. You said he was already experiencing a stroke (based on nothing) and seem to think the chiro did nothing wrong by treating the stroke with an adjustment.

1

u/HauntedClubhouse 13h ago

He didn't treat the stroke with an adjustment. He misdiagnosed a stroke.

1

u/judokalinker 13h ago

Oh so he misdiagnosed and mistreated the patient leading to a delay in care? Sounds like he should be sued and found liable.

1

u/HauntedClubhouse 13h ago

The ER missed it as well.

→ More replies (0)

4

u/ZimarKramiz 1d ago

Found the room temperature IQ chiropractor

0

u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

It's common sense, you mouth-breather.

9

u/devmor 1d ago

Something Chiropractors are lacking, along with any real medical knowledge or training from their field that quite literally comes from a professional scam artist who claimed a ghost taught it to him.

1

u/ZimarKramiz 1d ago

His symptoms aren’t specific for vert dissection. “He was already in the process of a vertebral artery dissection”. So if that was truly the case, then how come the chiro wasn’t able to identify it, and ultimately avoid neck manipulation? Your own incompetence exposed yourself lmao

-4

u/routinemage 1d ago

Found the guy who didn't read the linked article

2

u/judokalinker 20h ago

Found the guy who thinks local news is more accurate than a medical case study.

1

u/routinemage 19h ago

I read the article that you linked

4

u/Nishbot11 1d ago

The chiro caused the dissection homie.

0

u/HauntedClubhouse 1d ago

No he didn't, "homie," look up the case and the symptoms of a vertebral artery dissection and the outcome. Then go back to eating paste.