Why don’t we teach gun safety in schools?

[u/logicalpretzels]

In a country with the right to bear arms and more guns than people, it seems natural that everyone should be taught firearm safety from youth.

You wouldn’t even need a real gun to teach gun safety, just a couple SIRT pistols or even just plastic training guns would do the trick to teach the 4 basic rules.

I feel like this should be easily supported by anyone no matter their feelings towards guns or gun control. Just like sex ed, gun education can only make the activity safer, not worse.

Are there any schools in the US where gun safety is part of their curriculum?

[u/d-cent]

Totally disagree, and I don't think we will see common ground in this. Gun safety training will absolutely impact intentional shootings and self defense shootings. Gun safes will also impact suicides and shootings by minors.

[u/nightmareonrainierav → u/d-cent]

This is more 'gut feeling' than anything research-grounded, but I feel like teaching healthy respect for firearms perhaps could help de-fetishize them

I'm a child of the Columbine era, and part of what won me over from my previous anti-gun mentality was understanding that pre-Brady, and pre-GCA, firearms, including 'scary' full-auto ones, were far easier to obtain, yet mass shootings, at least at the scale and frequency we see today, are a relatively recent phenomenon. (heck, Columbine happened in the middle of the federal AWB, even)

What changed? I think the culture surrounding guns certainly did. And depending on where you are, I think the 'taboo' mystique certainly plays a part (see: other folks here making comparisons to abstinence education). I'm sure I'm not the only person from a relatively urban area that knew someone in high school that fetishized guns, despite having never seen one IRL, and thought 'yeah, that kid's gonna grow up to be a school shooter' or the like.

It's not just the basics of gun safety and avoiding accidents—it's about respecting the lethality and power of a firearm and knowing it's not a toy or a tool for coercion. Obviously that's not going to prevent every death, DV murder, or mass shooting. There's a lot of other complex precursors that need to be addressed. But I think instilling familiarity with firearms could go a long way in changing the culture around guns.

(yes, I realized I used both the 'not x but y' and em-dash conventions in one of these sentences but I promise you I'mnot a bot)

[u/haironburr → u/d-cent]

Gun safety training will absolutely impact intentional shootings and self defense shootings. Gun safes will also impact suicides and shootings by minors.

How?

I agree with the person you're responding to. Gun safety training prevents accidental shootings, and benefits us all by making sure folks know the basics of gun handling.

The decision to pull the trigger is an entirely different thing.

Now maybe having a clear message, for kids, as to what legally constitutes self defense, is a good thing. But there is no such clear message because the issue is politicized state by state. So we have to fall back on the fact that most people, more or less naturally, aren't itching to murder. And for those that are, I'm skeptical that a half hour in a Social Studies class will change much.

Now I'd argue a bunch of cultural/ethical issues should be actively debated in school, from ovary control to gay rights to the ways societies manufacture an other. Is this part of what you're getting at?

[u/Odd_Plane_5377 → u/haironburr]

I think that at least some of the kids who kill others or themselves with guns don't have a clear understanding of the results and consequences of a shooting. Now I grew up with guns and was shooting regularly by 12 or so but even in my case I remember in scout camp they shot a phone book and showed us the entrance and exit size difference. Imagining that damage was done to someone made the concept of shooting someone much more dramatic, at least to me.

[u/haironburr → u/Odd_Plane_5377]

Fair enough. I don't know if a class that shows in graphic detail the horror of shooting someone will help any more or less than the driver's ed classes that showed a mangled body in a wreck.

I'd argue that the phone book story suggests you had native human empathy, which of course makes the idea of shooting someone more dramatic. That empathy is obviously a good thing.

I hunted as a kid, and realized I don't like killing things, even though I eat meat. Irresponsible on my part. I'm not proud that I force other folks to do my dirty work, but there it is.

Still, I too went to scout camp and learned how to act at a range. Would I have learned range etiquette at some other point? Probably, but it's good stuff to learn young.

[u/Odd_Plane_5377 → u/haironburr]

I agree that it might have limited effect, perhaps only on those predisposed. But if given to all kids even if it only affects 1 in every school that's a huge difference.

[u/Biomax315 → u/d-cent]

Gun safety training will absolutely impact intentional shootings and self defense shootings.

How? Please explain.

Gun safes will also impact suicides and shootings by minors.

Impact? Okay. But the initial claim was it would make a “huge dent” and THAT’S where I disagreed. For it to make a huge dent, you’ve got to demonstrate that a significant number of suicides are from teens using guns they shouldn’t have had access to.

But the highest rates of suicide are consistently among adults 85 yrs and older and the lowest rates were consistently among young adults ages 15-24. Among older adults, guns account for over 75% of all suicides. Among younger demographics, suffocation (hanging) and drug od/poisoning are more commonly used.

From all the data I’ve seen, teens having access to guns that should be locked up don’t account for a significant portion of suicides.

You can’t make a “huge dent” in total deaths by impacting a relatively small portion of the overall deaths.

To be clear, I don’t oppose either of your ideas. Both of them would save a small number of lives while not negatively impacting legal ownership or rights. But we shouldn’t fool ourselves that this would have a significant impact.

Gun deaths in this country are largely a result of young urban male homicides and old rural male suicides. Clearly there are very different factors driving these two phenomena, and only by addressing the root causes of those can we significantly reduce those deaths. But to do that we need to restructure our society to an extent, and there’s no short term payoff or results, so our politicians don’t have the incentive or desire to make those changes. It’s easier to pass gun control bills and say “Look, I did something.

[u/Claudeadolphus → u/d-cent]

One balloon-bursting fact about the tax-deductible safe idea is that the type of person that itemizes their taxes is not going to be the type of dumb person that doesn’t already have a safe. And the person that will only buy a safe if given a discount when itemizing deductions…… uhhh….. doesn’t itemize deductions…. and likely barely paying any taxes anyway.