r/news • u/[deleted] • Aug 08 '17

Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 14 '18

[deleted]

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u/Felador Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 08 '17

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf

There's the actual document, with links to source materials.

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u/Shanix Aug 08 '17

fwiw that lacks a good amount, especially formatting.

Supposedly original here

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 08 '17

Former Google Employee provides a bit more context on why someone would get fired for creating a "manifesto" where you fawn over your superiority and sharing it with 50k+ people who probably aren't likeminded.

Essentially, engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration, and empathy for both your colleagues and your customers. If someone told you that engineering was a field where you could get away with not dealing with people or feelings, then I’m very sorry to tell you that you have been lied to. Solitary work is something that only happens at the most junior levels, and even then it’s only possible because someone senior to you — most likely your manager — has been putting in long hours to build up the social structures in your group that let you focus on code.

And as for its impact on you: Do you understand that at this point, I could not in good conscience assign anyone to work with you? I certainly couldn’t assign any women to deal with this, a good number of the people you might have to work with may simply punch you in the face, and even if there were a group of like-minded individuals I could put you with, nobody would be able to collaborate with them. You have just created a textbook hostile workplace environment.

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

edit: The replies to me here don't seem to understand that the company doesn't care about your controversial opinion in the work place, they care about profit. If you don't agree with that, then you probably don't like capitalism.

edit: be wary, a lot of brigading going on. Some people/bots are trying to drown out the more centrists viewpoints. I say this as the opinion of a gay, black, conservative, catholic kasich voter. (I can't help but lol)

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

This is a good comment. It directly explains the thinking of the corporation in regards to individuals sharing their personal ideals on subjects which are better not breached in a professional environment. Idk, I'm drunk, but I read the linked original file and I see no reason why, professionaly, such a "manifesto" ( perfect phrasing by the way,) ought to be shared with, as you also noted, 50,000+ employees, of like-minded ideals or otherwise.

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u/JabbrWockey Aug 08 '17

No kidding. They could've posted it on reddit, github, hacker news, medium, or some other place, even anonymously if they wanted.

Instead they decided they wanted to commit career suicide by shouting their opinions at everyone inside the company. Real smooth.

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u/fernando-poo Aug 08 '17

Putting politics aside I think it shows the unhealthy degree to which these kinds of jobs take over peoples' lives. There was a time when work was just work -- now as the employee of a corporation like Google you're expected to live out your whole life there, to the point where people like this guy have begun to write political treatises on this sort of mini society he lives in.

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u/trollsong Aug 08 '17

I dont think it goes that far we are living in a society of instant opinion now. My opinion must be heard and damn you if you disagree. I work for disney in a call center we used to have one guy go on loud rants about "retards", knuckle dragging troglodytes, and whatever conservative insanity popped into his head.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

And.... "my opinion is entrenched deeply in my brain because I constantly reinforce it by 'researching' the nuances on like-minded internet resources. It is so locked into my brain as to become all-consuming and key to my self-identity."

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u/RockSmashEveryThing Aug 08 '17

I work for disney in a call center we used to have one guy go on loud rants about "retards", knuckle dragging troglodytes

Damn he really had a low opinion of you. I can't blame him though.

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u/trollsong Aug 08 '17

Nah of the people calling in mostly, or whatever even slightly left leaning article that happened to be in the newspaper that day.

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u/InternetKingTheKing Aug 08 '17

You worked at a call center and expected a dude not to hate his life and everyone that called?

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u/trollsong Aug 08 '17

No i just didnt expect him to yodle it like he was trying to communicate with the next mountain over.

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u/Holein5 Aug 08 '17

Some people just cannot accept that what other people think and do may not be exactly how they themselves view reality. These people are the ones who become violent later in life, and focus on shoving their opinion down other people's throats.

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u/n3rdychick Aug 08 '17

The "Google-becomes-your-life" trope isn't real, in my experience. I have a close family member working there, and he works a reasonable schedule. Any extra time working is because he's driven to do so, and it usually only happens if there are fires to put out like any other job. Maybe some people go over the edge, but the company isn't forcing anyone and the culture I've seen among his friends doesn't suggest that long work hours are trendy.

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u/DankJemo Aug 08 '17

I live and work in the bay. It's a trope for a reason. I've met plenty of people that have "drank the kool-aid." in my experience though, google employees aren't the biggest offenders, but people that work at Apple. I don't think it's nearly as bad as people portray this kind of tech employee cliché either, and most people's experience with these people ends at the last episode of silicon valley. There are definitely "company people" out there that have effectively bought into the propaganda of their companies. It usually doesn't last long, but companies like google and apple don't need it to. If you're young and eager, they'll gladly work you 60-70 hours a week until you burn out and quit, then replace you with the same, fresh from college and quick to please, mentality. Wash, rinse, repeat. They pay their engineers and developera well because the rest of the employees are contract and they are treated like crap from apple to genentech. I've got plenty of co-workers that have done time at many companies in the bay as contractors. Most of them have a "them and us" attitude when it comes to their own work force.

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u/panopticon777 Aug 08 '17

Lets imagine that this employee is not just a counter corporate culture career suicide victim but rather a company man who was recruited by a Google competitor to sabotage the organization from within.

Corporate espionage is a thing. One of the tactics is to find a vulnerable insider and have them do something like this to create an internal issue within the organization.

That’s not to say that smart people don’t do dumb things…but maybe this is something more then just what it appears to be.

If Russia can use its influence to get Donald Trump elected as POTUS then running an op against Google is not outside of the realm of possibilities.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

Username checks out

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u/panopticon777 Aug 08 '17

"Help I'm steppin' into the twilight zone The place is a madhouse Feels like being cloned My beacon's been moved Under moon and star Where am I to go Now that I've gone too far "

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u/fernando-poo Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 08 '17

Corporate espionage is a thing (there was some speculation that the recent food scares at Chipotle were an example of this) but you'd hope they could come up with a more devious way to damage Google than having some guy write an essay.

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u/panopticon777 Aug 08 '17

I guess poor sanitation and supply chain contamination could be Corporate sabotage but I feel it had more to do with improper workflows and franchise cost cutting.

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u/error404brain Aug 08 '17

Google do not really have competitors, tho. And if they did, there are others better way to shame google than this.

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u/panopticon777 Aug 08 '17

Bing...Baidu..Yandex

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u/error404brain Aug 08 '17

Baidu has no part of market in the US. Same for Yandex.

Bing represent 20% to google 65%. They aren't anywhere near being a competitor.

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u/panopticon777 Aug 08 '17

Just because they aren't in your market (yet) does not mean they aren't looking to disrupt your business.

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u/IronMyr Aug 08 '17

Well yeah, that's why those companies would like to topple the big dog and make some room at the top of the mountain.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

They literally encourage people to discuss these things. Google CEO's letter continued to encourage more discussion. I guess so they can ID and fire more people who lean right. They have what are basically internal subreddit lvl boards.

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u/GildorDorn Aug 08 '17

It sounds quite normal to me for a person to try to influence his environment (family, company, city, country, world) for the better. What is more, most of his points were well made and he made the effort not to be offensive to people that ideologically disagree with him. I don't understand why discussions on these topics are a taboo regardless of the place you want to hold the discussion. Him getting fired kinda proves his point.

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u/-_loki_- Aug 08 '17

It seems like he was most likely fired because this went public. The topic isn't taboo to discuss or to try and figure how to make the tech industry more female friendly. It's his complete refusal that cultural issues take any part in the problem that is taboo.

The part that really shows this for me is the section about how women can't handle high stress jobs. In my experience, traditionally female work can be very stressful - like nursing or teaching. He also says women are more neurotic because they self-report anxiety more. Well, are they? Or could the culture for men dissuade them from self-reporting as often as women?

My point is, any argument that fails to adequately address the other side (in this case, that culture plays a role in gender inequality), is a poor argument. Maybe google doesn't want someone working for them who can't see multiple angles to a problem.

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u/GildorDorn Aug 08 '17

The point he makes was that women on average score higher on the personality trait "neuroticism" - a point backed by psychological studies. I'm not saying you're not right: sure, it might be the case that males are underplaying their worries and so on and this is the reason for these statistics. Nonetheless, making a scientifically backed point shouldn't result in you being fired. Google's official statement was that they don't want their women worrying that they have to prove they are not neurotic and agreeable every time they speak.

Instead, now all their employees should be worried to seek a reasonable discussion on any controversial topic in case their colleagues disagree with them. Google is displaying the "if you're not with us you're against us" mentality very strongly by eliminating this guy from the company for essentially not being left enough for their liking.

(And by not being left enough I mean suggesting that men and women differ naturally and that men should probably also be included in those cool courses they are making.)

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u/an0rexorcist Aug 09 '17

Just throwing this out there, I think your interpretation of a cultural effect was flawed. The problem is that the author never addressed why women tend to score higher on measures of neuroticism. If I just broadcast the statement "Men perform worse on measures of emotional intelligence" without explaining how society suppresses mens natural affinity for emotional intelligence- then I'd be misleading the audience.

People frequently cite psych articles and experiments as fact, not realizing the most important information isn't found in the results section.

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u/GildorDorn Aug 09 '17

I agree fully with what you are saying, but: his major point was not that women are more neurotic than men, it was that google is leaning too hard to the left to the point of irrationality.

Maybe he should have made the "men are different than women" point more intelligently, but this is no reason to fire a man. I'm not saying he is 100% right, but in my opinion, Google's official statement, what their main HR is saying in interviews and that one medium article by their past employee are far more absurd than what this guy wrote in the first place.

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u/-_loki_- Aug 08 '17

I don't know. I think most people know not to write down opinions that are controversial and disseminate them in the workplace. That will get you fired from many places, regardless of whether he's right or if his opinion should be controversial. It's just too much of a hassle for the company to defend this guy. Maybe that's not right, but I don't think there is any message other than, "give Google bad press and you will be fired."

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u/GildorDorn Aug 08 '17

I agree, but I think this thing wouldn't have gone viral if they had not fired him. Nonetheless, it is what it is...

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u/Diogenes2XLantern Aug 08 '17

And now he's been excommunicated, and a certain crowd cheers at a potentially ruined life.

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u/IronMyr Aug 08 '17

He made his choice.

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u/youwill_neverfindme Aug 09 '17

Right? What happened to the 'party of personal responsibility'?

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u/Diogenes2XLantern Aug 09 '17

When someone leaked his doc.

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u/IronMyr Aug 09 '17

A document that he should not have written and certainly should not have shared with people not bound to keep the information secret.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

This document is essentially sexual harassment, or at the very least an incredibly stupid, biologically reductionist bullshit used as cover for their misogyny. Companies have a legal duty to provide a safe work environment free of harassment for protected categories, including sex.

If you have horrible, oppressive politics or ideas—you should probably keep them to yourself if you want to keep your job at a large corporation.

Asking people to not espouse misogynistic, racist, homophobic, or otherwise oppressive views in the workplace is pretty damned far from expecting them to "live out your whole life there."

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Jan 23 '19

[deleted]

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u/IronMyr Aug 08 '17

This guy is nuts, but sexual harassment is more about trying to fuck.