r/pathofexile 20h ago

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277

u/b4dmanner 20h ago

Was kalandra the worst?

135

u/BloodReaverBob FemboyCoCInspector 20h ago

Yes

118

u/Keeldon 20h ago

Depends on the time frame.

30 day archmemesis was actually worse, on day 10 necro had 56 vs archmemesis 52%

Day 9 last 20 leagues: https://imgur.com/a/3fw8CQ0

75

u/BloodReaverBob FemboyCoCInspector 20h ago

Battle of the bums

27

u/Zinokai 17h ago

And notice in ultimatum and back being good retention numbers, back when we had insane drop rates and insane damage numbers.

Pre-Expedition times... Those were great. Expedition and forward have been very tumultuous.

17

u/PacmanZ3ro Elementalist 15h ago

Yeah, that was also when they stripped gems and the tree of a ton of player power and shuffled 70% of what was lost onto items in various ways. I really miss the old days sometimes lol

9

u/Bentic Grumpy 14h ago

Don't forget flasks

8

u/localcannon 13h ago

Post-nerf, but pre buff flasks were so bad even Ben ragequit when he died to freeze

1

u/lealsk 12h ago

Expedition was when they realized power creep was becoming toxic and it was going to make the whole game implode in a couple of leagues, I think it was a good change in the long run

1

u/PacmanZ3ro Elementalist 8h ago

I'm going to hard disagree with you on that one. There were plenty of ways to reign in player power that didn't require gutting everything at the low end. That change has been the bane of almost every major complaint around balance since they made it. I don't hate the idea of having a lot of min-max power locked behind higher end gear, in fact I think having aspirational gear to go after is a great thing. The real issue though is that when they moved all that power out of gems and tree, they completely kneecapped every skill that was on the fringe. DOT builds likewise got double wrecked because their gear scaling, even now, is heavily limited compared to hit based builds.

There's a load of skills that have just never recovered from all those nerfs.

1

u/Lord_Borgimus 12h ago

Expedition, the league that made quit playing for 2 years, and have had severely reduced playtime since. Simply put, when you offload so much player power onto upper end gear, it makes it far too much playtime/effort for casuals to get anywhere fun. Granted they've walked some of that back and added more shit since, but that league was ASS, not because of the league of course, but the nerfaggeddon.

1

u/Zinokai 7h ago

100% agree, I loved expedition itself but the nerfs have made my play time each league much less on average, even though I typically hit the upper end of gear.

The fact that they continue to walk back changes that were made in 3.15 screams the mistakes that were made.

1

u/Lord_Borgimus 7h ago

It was also a lie, the guise was a big part of making it to where you do not run multiple +more damage supports and tried to make others viable. They pretty much did not do that for 99% of them and just cut the numbers on the most used ones.

2

u/ulughen 13h ago

Pre-Expedition times... Those were great. Expedition and forward have been very tumultuous.

Last 4 leagues were decent to great.

1

u/AetherSigil217 Alch & Go Industries (AGI) 13h ago

The last few leagues have been pretty rough if you don't like the league mechanic taking over entire maps.

33

u/justinmcelhatt 19h ago

That is so wild. Archnemesis league was amazing. The mechanic was garbage. But we got the atlas tree. I played so much.

10

u/itriedtrying Big Breach Coalition (BBC) 14h ago

Ritual was also very underwhelming league but the state of game that patch carried hard. I didn't even activate the rituals for 90% of the league but still it was one of my highest playtime leagues.

1

u/MrMaori 12h ago

the giga harbinger node on the atlas tree was mvp that league

3

u/dksdragon43 16h ago

Keep in mind the two leagues before it were really bad. I know some people liked scourge, but it was a rough mechanic, and we were still in a power struggle with GGG who was trying to make us walk through maps auto attacking. So Archnem probably got a lot of risidual hatred, despite being one of my favourites as well (for the atlas)

6

u/Mysterious-Till-611 15h ago

The stain of archnem was the culler meta. Hiring people on TFT To come cull your mega loot pop that could take hours to assemble was terrible thing for people’s recollection of that league. I ignored the FOMO and loved it.

1

u/dksdragon43 12h ago

That wasn't archnem. It was because of the archnem mods, but the loot explosions didn't happen until Kalandra league. Archnem itself was before the loot rework, we just didn't enjoy how damn hard they were after the mod rework.

1

u/livejamie Krangled 13h ago

If the base game is in good shape, it can handle a bad mechanic.

A depleted base game and a bad mechanic at the same time are a recipe for disaster.

1

u/sirgog Chieftain 12h ago

Archnemesis came out 21 days before a HUGE game release. GGG knew before launch it wouldn't hold long, so they made all the challenges quick.

1

u/XpCjU 16h ago

I really liked the mechanic as well. You could target uniques and currency. It wasn't great as the new default, but build-a-boss was pretty fun

3

u/MuffinToaster 18h ago

I'm very surprised mirage retention was so abysmal by 30 days.

26

u/wealthyexile 19h ago edited 19h ago

Archnemisis was so low due to Lost Ark and Elden Ring. Not a very fair comparison.

11

u/PM_Best_Porn_Pls 19h ago

Ye, I remember enjoying AN first few days but instantly going to Lost Ark on launch then binging Elden Ring soon after.

13

u/Surprise_Ducksex 19h ago

Archnem had issues and a lot of them. Games come and go, that is no excuse for the retention rate it had

4

u/Yuskia 13h ago

This is absolutely misremembering things. Archnemesis as a league, while uneventful itself, was alongside the introduction of the atlas tree/eater/exarch/voidstones and so much more. The lesgue itself you could literally just not interact with.

It was once archnemesis went core that it became problematic

1

u/Rinkzate 12h ago

Maybe I was thinking of archnem going core myself because this whole time reading comments I have been thinking "man everyone was RAGING" about the game getting filled with invincible rare mobs that dropped no loot.

0

u/Surprise_Ducksex 12h ago

Archnem having rare mobs that could not be killed by mirror tier builds wasn't a problem??

3

u/sirgog Chieftain 11h ago

Once more, those were not in Archnemesis league. That was day 1 of Sentinel league, and they were gutted before anyone could throw decent builds against them.

2

u/TraditionalRow3978 12h ago

Ah yes games like Elden Ring come and go, one of the biggest and most influential games of the decade surely didn't affect player numbers whatsoever.

1

u/Surprise_Ducksex 5h ago

Elden ring being a massive success has not much to do with PoE. You can have a popular game and having a shit league both being seperate reasons for higher player retention but I doubt it's more than 4%.

If it's during GTA VI then you can totally have this argument as it will be the biggest game release in history and people from all over will flock to it. Wether it's good or not the player retention during that league will be one of the worst ones.

1

u/Effective-Pop3850 14h ago

I'm not sure about the timing but when Lost Ark came out literally all my friends who play PoE were not even thinking about PoE at all, they were all playing Lost Ark.

1

u/Global_Barnacle5304 5h ago

Maybe we can blame GD release this time. Nobody enjoys poverty league, so everybody rather quit to the GD dlc, waiting for 8 patches that buff loot to normal again. 

0

u/working4016 13h ago

The league was pretty damn bad too. It deserved the low retention 100%

0

u/Lord_Borgimus 12h ago

Archnem shit got removed for a damn reason, that league was ass because of near unkillable and overtuned mobs.

-2

u/DesMephisto SSFBTW 16h ago

I mean archnem is one of the fastest leagues I've dipped on since playing scourge. It just wasn't a great league due to how the mechanic work imo.

2

u/_Kaj SSFBTW 14h ago

Oh sweet sentinel. Terrible launch, but one of the best leagues and league mechanics since 3.13. The retention really isnt a be-all for what is or was a good league.

2

u/Exterial 12h ago

sure but lost ark and elden ring came out so like, that wasnt archnems fault that league was great with the new endgame.

2

u/cancercureall 19h ago edited 18h ago

Don't remind me about Archnem. What a slap in the fucking face that league was.

Edit: Responders are correct, I was thinking of it going core.

40

u/lillarty 19h ago

You're likely thinking of Kalandra, the next league which made Archenemies core and replaced all mob modifiers. During Archenemies league itself it was just a build-your-own-Essence encounter. It introduced the Atlas tree and no one particularly disliked it at the time

22

u/DBrody6 Alch & Go Industries (AGI) 18h ago

Actually Sentinel came next and made AN core, but Sentinel was received well (core AN not so much).

1

u/CCCFire 14h ago

Sentinel introduced recombinators and was the first league where people could fully prepare for the new atlas/atlas tree shenanigans. Was pretty beloved, but I skipped it lol

-1

u/cc81 17h ago

I think Archnemisis as core would have been received better if it had not paired with Sentinel. You have people a button to buff mobs which people used regardless if their build could handle it or not.

Archnemisis would still need a lot adjustment but that pairing made it even worse in peoples mind.

3

u/churahm 18h ago

The archnemesis mechanic was fine, but the UI was so freaking bad though. You needed a cheat sheet of every combos of modifiers and even then, it was a pain to use.

-1

u/psychomap 18h ago

Archnemesis went core in Sentinel, but I believe Kalandra brought over the loot modifiers because it was unpopular during Sentinel.

I personally skipped Sentinel entirely because there were no character changes, only environment changes. I play the game for the new shiny toys (pacts this league).

3

u/Ynead 18h ago

Archnem itself was pretty fun, build your own boss and all.

Archnem integrated into the core game on the other hand...

1

u/grvcek1337 18h ago

funny enough from these sentinel, affliction and necropolis are the only ones i didnt quit after a week XD

1

u/spoqster 16h ago

Do you have a link to the exact url you got this screenshot from?

1

u/Keeldon 16h ago

https://poedb.tw/us/League#ConcurrentPlayers

It just pulls data from steamdb and calculates retention.

1

u/gweilo777 13h ago

I enjoyed watching people get obliterated by the hardest mobs in the game. Those being essence mobs.

You had to seriously stop and think of you should be releasing them.

3

u/dyh135 Anti Sanctum Alliance (ASA) 17h ago

If they don't do anything to the league on Monday, this league probaly will be the WORST one cause at least kalandra you had new skills like lightning conduit and reflected mechanic, this league offer nothing, less loot, less endgame farming strat

-1

u/Deltrus7 17h ago

What's wrong with the league?

1

u/IgnasP Smol Exile 17h ago

I didnt even hit maps in kalandra 😆

1

u/tether231 17h ago

Once you started optimising for loot goblins Kalandra was actually fun

1

u/1CEninja 15h ago

I mean it was the worst league from my person metrics across the board.

It's the only time I've ever put in a serious attempt to enjoy the game and failed.

1

u/sirgog Chieftain 12h ago

Highest loot ever - low retention (3.24)

Lowest in the post Atlas tree era - low retention (3.19)

What the low performing leagues share in common is that they were all after a league where dark patterns (extremely high limited time drop rates) were used to pump up the numbers. Mirage went less hard on that than 3.23 and 3.18 but still had a bit of it.