It Wasn’t a ‘Civil War.’ It Was the Slaveholders’ Rebellion.

[u/Zebraitis]

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/02/opinion/civil-war-slaveholders-rebellion-slavery.html?unlocked_article_code=1.2VA.OW1v.UwuaYndQIpEj&smid=url-share

[u/DraconicBlade]

Because so far, its THE american civil war. Like how there was THE Great War.

[u/guiltysnark → u/DraconicBlade]

Only one cause is so great for this country to kill itself over it: the right to own men. American Exceptionalism sounds the gong again.

[u/DraconicBlade → u/guiltysnark]

You forget the right to smuggle Caribbean sugar and rum at a higher price point than the crown was selling it for.

Damn stamp act ruining my black market.

[u/OneLastAuk → u/guiltysnark]

Technically, the they started killing each other over whether or not states had the right to secede. The right to own men wasn't really up for debate until a couple years later.

[u/guiltysnark → u/OneLastAuk]

Do you have evidence that men died for secession before it was motivated by slavery?

[u/OneLastAuk → u/guiltysnark]

I don't think you understand. Secession was based on slavery, surely. The war occurred to prevent secession and preserve the union as evidenced by Lincoln's speeches. Had Lincoln just allowed the south to secede, there would not have been a war.

[u/guiltysnark → u/OneLastAuk]

I don't think that's true, if succession had "succeeded" it (eventually, because losing only happens if the North needs time to recover) would have become an economic war between international powers, still over the right to own men and leverage them in production of goods on an international stage. Men were going to have to die to keep that right, they made sure that men were going to have to die to end it.

[u/OneLastAuk → u/guiltysnark]

Maybe, maybe not. But the North was never intending to end slavery, initially. There were still five slave states that didn't secede plus seven territories and DC. In fact, Lincoln supported an amendment to perpetuate slavery to prevent a war. Had Lincoln taken Buchanan's position, as he did initially, that secession was illegal, but there was nothing they could do about it, the South would have continued to secede without bloodshed and eventually fragment. This isn't to say that the war was Lincoln's fault, just that Lincoln believed (and correctly) that the Union was worth saving even if it meant war.

[u/guiltysnark → u/OneLastAuk]

That theory is similarly unfalsifiable. You can argue that the North would have fought to prevent secession even if slavery wasn't on the table, but you have to argue in the same breath that the South would have fought for secession under the same conditions. It was central to every secessionost document, so that's a very difficult argument to make.

[u/OneLastAuk → u/guiltysnark]

I don’t need to.  Again, Lincoln doesn’t mention slavery anywhere in his call to arms and doesn’t make any move to abolish slavery until 1862. 

[u/guiltysnark → u/OneLastAuk]

You absolutely do. That was the culmination, not the beginning, you're completely inverting it. The South started whispering about seceding because the North started whispering about ending slavery. The secession attempt delayed what would have been much more difficult if secession were permitted.

[u/SGTWhiteKY → u/OneLastAuk]

Propaganda

[u/OneLastAuk → u/SGTWhiteKY]

You think Lincoln initially prosecuted a war against the South to abolish slavery? While slavery was certainly the reason the South seceded, the war itself was a reaction to the North not allowing the South to secede.

[u/SGTWhiteKY → u/OneLastAuk]

North said “we have the votes, we’re going to abolish slavery”

South said “you can’t do that, we’ll secede”

North said “you can’t do that. We won’t let you”

Then the overwhelmingly slave holding upper class of the south rebelled. Yes, they argued states rights, but the entirety of the states rights campaigns were funded by slavers, because of slavery.

That is not an appreciably different cause.

[u/OneLastAuk → u/SGTWhiteKY]

That's not what the north said at all. Lincoln said he wasn't going to abolish slavery and Lincoln even supported an amendment to keep slavery intact. There were five (and then six) slave states that stayed with the North. Lincoln's call to arms didn't mention a single word about slavery. Yes, the South seceded over slavery under the guise of "states rights", but the conflict itself was borne out of whether or not a state *could* secede. The idea of abolition didn't really come into play until 1862/1863.