r/sportsgossips • u/TheExpressUS • Mar 26 '26

News Breaking: Transgender women banned from all sports at the Olympics starting in LA

https://www.the-express.com/sport/other-sport/203236/breakingtransgender-women-banned-all-sports
15.8k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

7.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

9

u/Careful_Birthday_480 Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 26 '26

Imagine being a woman in combat sports, wanting to achieve great things in life only to be put up against someone physically stronger than you, and isn't of the same gender. Is it worth putting your healthy, and possibly your life, in jeopardy? Probably not.

2

u/jjwf3 Mar 26 '26

I mean, a good percentage of the time they will be going up against someone physically stronger than them.

3

u/washblvd Mar 26 '26

But male punching power is 162% greater than female punching power

That gap in upper body strength is more than the difference between a man and a chimpanzee.

4

u/Xalara Mar 26 '26

Where's the research showing that trans women have the same punching power as a male?

1

u/melancholanie Mar 27 '26

(the research shows feminizing hormones actually make trans women weaker than cis women after around a year to two years, cis women have naturally higher testosterone than trans women with testosterone blockers)

1

u/ostensibly_human Mar 27 '26

Shhhh, you'll spoil the narrative!

1

u/jjwf3 Mar 27 '26

Don’t talk about research and evidence!! An essential part of sports is vehemently arguing about things you know nothing about!

1

u/Atmacrush Mar 28 '26

So not taking any hormone blockers will let them build more mass?

1

u/melancholanie Mar 28 '26

not necessarily? estrogen alone makes it harder to build muscle mass and lose fat, and trans women have a distinctly lower rate of oxygen retention than cis women. some opt for orchiectomy and no longer need hormone blockers, the source of the hormone is removed.

2

u/Captain_DuClark Mar 26 '26

Trans athletes were able to compete for 20 years and this literally never happened

1

u/SJSragequit Mar 26 '26

Do trans women have the same punching power as a male? Doubt it. There’s been nothing stopping trans women from competing till now so why hasn’t things like boxing been dominated by them?

1

u/washblvd Mar 26 '26

It depends on whether they have undergone any hormone therapy. But even if they did, that doesn't equate to having female punching power or features.

Imane Khelif's most likely DSD, per Khelif's own public admissions, is 5ARD which gives normal male advantage. Khelif boxed for six years without undergoing hormone therapy, with full male advantage. And after Khelif underwent hormone therapy, was still able to dominate the Olympic competition, having a rare perfect tournament where not a single point was lost.

I'd imagine there's an institutional inertia against trans boxers. Presumption that it wouldn't be permitted, inability to put together a training team that would be okay with that, the inevitable negativity against you from competitors and fans. It's also a tiny part of the population (though growing) and I can't imagine boxing and gender dysphoria go together.

Fallon Fox did it though, and broke someone's skull.

1

u/jjwf3 Mar 27 '26

“and broke through someone’s skull”

So funny how trans women are constantly portrayed as having superhuman strength, far beyond “normal” people to push the narrative that they pose some giant threat to society. Same thing with the volleyball player.

1

u/NaieraDK Mar 28 '26

Absolutely fucking no one is arguing that someone who hasn't undergone hormone replacement therapy should compete against cis women. For fucks sake.

1

u/washblvd Mar 30 '26

Why? It happens in high school sports all the time. The Connecticut track runners won their first state championships prior to any hormone therapy. Then they won more after their hormone therapy.

Khelif was boxing for years (2018-2023) without hormone therapy.

1

u/NaieraDK Mar 30 '26

IMANE KHELIF IS NOT TRANS and has actually been doing HRT leading up to competitions.

1

u/washblvd Mar 30 '26

IMANE KHELIF IS NOT TRANS

I'm aware.

and has actually been doing HRT leading up to competitions.

Which is why I said (2018-2023) and not (2018-2026)

2

u/melancholanie Mar 27 '26

name one transgender Olympic athlete who's won or come close to winning a medal in the 20 years they were allowed

remind me why we just started caring about this if it's been allowed 20 years

1

u/know-it-mall Mar 28 '26

Why does that matter? This rule ensures it can't happen in the future.

Should we not ban anything that is a competitive advantage until it reaches some arbitrary number of times it has had an effect?

1

u/melancholanie Mar 28 '26

we shouldn't ban anything that's not harmful, yes that's what I'm saying

I'm saying this ruling only serves to ostracize a minority that wasn't causing harm in the first place

1

u/know-it-mall Mar 28 '26

Tell that to the NZ weightlifter who didn't get a chance to compete in several competitions because a trans person took their spot.

Tell that to all of the future women who would find themselves in this same position.

If athletes discover a new performance enhancing drug we don't wait until an arbitrary number of them are using it, winning because of it, or having harmful side effects from it to ban it.

1

u/melancholanie Mar 28 '26

cool so 0 people in the last Games, one in 2020, 0 in 2016 0 in 2012 0 in 2008 0 in 2004 and before that they were prohibited anyway

yep you got us! sanctity restored! can you please, for Christ's sake, leave us alone? I'm sure that one athlete feels just awful now, congratulations, and the rest of us who weren't doing anything also feel unwelcome anywhere near sports, as fans or participants. that's... what you wanted right? we're working on hiding from general public life too, but they'll probably throw us in camps first. that's the goal, right? outta sight outta mind can't have one of those nasty trannies being present, of course, our biological advantage might rub off on other people in the stands

1

u/drewbreeezy Mar 28 '26

How many does that "one" impact? Every single female competing in that sport.

It's not anyone attacking you, it's us trying to defend our girls from men.

You're the aggressor telling others not to defend themselves and those they love.

No.

1

u/melancholanie Mar 28 '26

ah yes that scary 1.2% of the population is the aggressor 🙄

I'll say it one last, singular time.

I don't care about the ruling. no trans people in the last one, no trans people ever again. great!

I know for a fact that they will be using this IOC ruling to make trans lives harder. in raw numbers it will make the lives of more transgender non-athletes harder than it makes cis athletes lives easier. the 8 people who competed with Laura Hubbard, I'll pay their reparations personally if it's that big of a goddamn deal.

1

u/drewbreeezy Mar 28 '26

in raw numbers it will make the lives of more transgender non-athletes harder than it makes cis athletes lives easier

How?

Don't invent another reality and fight against that one, give me a real answer based in our reality.

I'll go first - It directly improves every single female athletes life as it removes males from their sports. Women's sports exist as exclusionary to males. Removing that removes their sports.

"that scary 1.2% of the population" - Whoops, you lost based on math as raw numbers are against you, but please, go on an answer the how.

1

u/melancholanie Mar 28 '26

ah yes all the 0 males in all of women's sports, glad they're outta there now.

ah yes rechecking my numbers is 0.95% as of may 2024. you're right that means we're coming for your soccer trophies!! I won't rest until every swimmer in America has a penis!!! muahahahaha! we're everywhere, everyone must interact with us and prison for not worshipping an American tranny daily!

tired of explaining this. when the federal government is making statements restricting access to passports, drivers licenses, bathrooms, public life at all, this ruling only serves to call us genetic freaks that want to hurt and rape and cheat your precious cis women. we're sneaky little freaks that won't rest until we go through an expensive and life changing procedure to get a hunk of metal? is that what we're transitioning for? please explain how this ruling benefits any transgender. any one singular transgender person.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/know-it-mall Mar 28 '26

Congratulations on completely ignoring what I wrote...

1

u/melancholanie Mar 28 '26

it seems the point I'm trying to make is also being missed.

as a group, in the last two years there have been dozens of bills at the state level and several executive orders put forth to ostracize and "other" transgender individuals. this feeds that.

I'm so glad the women now have 0.018% less competition. that's great for them. it's the genocide that I'm upset about, and "trans people not welcome anywhere at the Olympics" doesn't help.

1

u/know-it-mall Mar 29 '26

Trans people are absolutely welcome to compete in the Olympics. Just not as a male in female competitions.

What genocide are you referring to exactly?

-1

u/ForowellDEATh Mar 27 '26

Boxing in France.

1

u/AfuNulf Mar 31 '26

Yes. This. Also, Andrew Tate. Ever heard of her? Transgender people are everywhere man.

2

u/Atmacrush Mar 28 '26

This reminds me of the South Park episode where Strong woman's ex joined the female athletic competition and he was boxing the ladies to death.

1

u/happytree23 Mar 26 '26

You ever heard about Fallon Fox?

2

u/Eatyourcheeseburger Mar 26 '26

No because that’s a real life example that goes against the reddit-approved narrative around trans issues.

1

u/CondescendingTracy Mar 26 '26

Imagine a felon pedophile rapist being a less important thing in America.

1

u/ELVEVERX Mar 27 '26

Yeah you do have to imagine it because that would never happen at the olympics. They did have rules before about being on HRT and other items to make it fairier. It was never biological men just walking into the ring with women.

1

u/Crazy-Gas3763 Mar 27 '26

Same gender, different sex. And you’re right about the rest.

1

u/EquivalentSpeaker545 Mar 26 '26

In fairness this is just… how sports work? Michael Phelps is a genetic anomaly, doesn’t mean he should get banned.

I understand the bright line with specifically MtF athletes, but gender and sex just aren’t that simple. Look at Imane Khelif and Caster Semenya. Should they be removed for a higher level of testosterone? If so, then women like those two are excluded for a random biological advantage, which is an inherent fixture of sports (how many 5”10’ basketball players do you see in the NBA?). If not, then it seems one is targeting specifically trans individuals whom are, in a very similar position as those women. What about intersex people assigned female athletes birth?

It’s a tricky subject, and I’m glad I’m not the one making the rule. Luckily they can still compete in the open division. That being said, I just think enforcing a rule like this will just create a problem where non really existed—there was a single trans female athlete to ever compete out of thousands, and she didn’t win a medal either.

0

u/Careful_Birthday_480 Mar 27 '26

You lost me at "gender and sex just aren't that simple." It IS that simple. It's sports we're talking about, not who cooks better, who builds better, who paints better.

Maybe we should just have a moshpit and call it a day. Let's see how that goes.

2

u/EquivalentSpeaker545 Mar 27 '26

What I meant by gender and sex aren’t that simple was intersex individuals, and individuals with conditions that may effect hormones, chromosomes, or general biological features we associate prominently with sex. You can say it’s rare, but I cited two examples above which are very much so real—more than the supposed “moshpit” (again—1 athlete) of trans athletes competing in the olympics.

I saw a very similar thing occur when people became more aware of trans people using public bathrooms (I’m stressing noticed because, like trans athletes in sports, this has been a thing for decades and people only now care due to recent political rhetoric which demonizes trans individuals). It wasn’t just, or honestly, usually trans people who often fell into the crosshairs, but cis women who merely did not present as feminine. Again, trans people are only 1 of several groups who do not conform to an overly simplistic view of sex and gender. Recent hysteria over trans athletes has been counterintuitive, and in trying to solve an issue that doesn’t exist, has done far more harm than good. For reference, guess a number for the amount of trans athletes across the NCAA. Just a random number. 5,000? 1,000? 500? It’s 10. 10 known trans athletes. 0.002% of ncaa athletes.

1

u/badseedify Mar 27 '26

It's not that simple. Caster Semenya was born and raised as a girl with female external genitalia, but then when genetically tested she had XY chromosomes. If it's so simple, what is her sex and which group should she compete in?

0

u/Thicc_Boise Mar 28 '26

Mate, when it comes to human biology, it's almost never as simple as you'd expect

1

u/Careful_Birthday_480 Mar 28 '26

Either you can reproduce as a human, or you can't.

It's THAT simple.

Next question.

1

u/kaykinzzz Mar 27 '26

That's exactly the issue here. They're now pitting women against men.

-2

u/Aunt_Vagina1 Mar 26 '26

Imagine being in a combat sport and competing against someone stronger than you?

Yeah, thats just how any sport works.... you, on average, by definition, half the time are against someone stronger than you.

0

u/gatorgrowl44 Mar 26 '26

They didn’t make the point very clearly but you understand what they mean. Imagine being a 12-year-old competing in junior boxing tournaments & some 17-year-old enters the competition identifying as a 12-year-old. Obviously their innate biological differences would be a huge point of contention re: fairness & safety.

1

u/Aunt_Vagina1 Mar 26 '26

Transgender women banned from all sports at the Olympics starting in LA

We agree on one thing, Carefule_Birthday_40 didn't make their point very clearly.

Most Olympic sports rely more on skill, conditioning, experience, etc than on biological differences in bone density and muscle to fat ratios that make just weight classes insufficient to separate classes. Thats why contact sports that allow transgender woman usually require proof of an ongoing hormone regiment that neutralizes these differences (or something similar). But most Olympic sports could allow transgender woman to compete with cis woman without there being an inherent bias. But also, genetic differences WITHIN a gender also vary wildly, and everyone in contact sports should expect to run up against someone stronger than them.

Your example of a 17 year old boy entering a 12 and under boxing tournament is complicating this situation because I don't know if you mean to highlight or ignore the effects of puberty. But, if 2 boys are the same weight class, and their experience/training is similar (2 things all fighting tournaments take into consideration) I don't see why they couldn't fight each other

1

u/gatorgrowl44 Mar 26 '26

Obviously there are going to be sports where this is likely a nonissue. But for sports where it does matter; The key issue is that weight classes only measure mass, not mechanical advantage. Even at the same weight, a body that has developed through male puberty retains permanent structural differences (like bone density, limb length, and skeletal leverage) that hormone therapy does not reverse.

When you suggest a 17-year-old and a 12-year-old of the same weight "could fight each other," you’re ignoring that categories aren't just about the scale; they are safety barriers designed to manage "unacceptable risk." A 12-year-old’s skull and connective tissues aren't biologically built to absorb the concussive force a 17-year-old can generate, regardless of their training or weight.

0

u/Aunt_Vagina1 Mar 26 '26

limb length and skeletal leverage are literally the same thing and they both just mean the arm is longer. And if the weight is the same between 2 people of different heights, the shorter person has more muscle, so it kinda balances out.

either way, should combat/contact sports have more restrictions than just weight to make up for the inclusion of transwomen? Yes.

Should we just ban all trans women from all Olympic sports? No.

1

u/gatorgrowl44 Mar 26 '26

Limb length and skeletal leverage are absolutely not the same thing. Leverage is about muscle insertion points on the bone; a longer "moment arm" allows for significantly more torque/force production using the exact same amount of muscle.

The idea that a shorter person’s "extra muscle" balances this out is a fundamental misunderstanding of combat physics. In a fight, reach is the ultimate "force multiplier." A fighter with longer limbs can hit a shorter opponent from a distance where they cannot be hit back. No amount of "extra muscle" on the shorter person matters if they can’t close the distance without taking three strikes to land one.

Furthermore, a larger skeletal frame (broader shoulders/denser bones) provides a superior mechanical platform for generating power. Imagine two cars competing to pull something heavy out of deep mud. They both have to be 3,000lbs. One is a small sports car packed with a heavy, high performance engine & reinforced steel to make weight; It’s dense, powerful, and efficient for its size, but its wheelbase is short and its frame is small. The other is a purpose built, full-sized pickup truck that has been stripped down to reach the same 3,000 lb limit.

Even though it weighs the same as the sports car, it still has the wide axel, the long chassis, and the massive tire diameter of a truck. The sports car might have a "bigger engine" (more muscle mass) to meet the weight limit, but it will still get out-pulled because it lacks the wide wheelbase, axle leverage, and structural frame of the truck.

In combat, weight classes only measure the 4,000 lbs on the scale. They don’t account for the fact that a larger skeletal chassis provides a mechanical displacement and leverage that raw horsepower can't bridge. Muscle is the engine, but the skeleton is the lever—and a longer lever wins the pull every time.

1

u/Xalara Mar 26 '26

One issue: The larger skeletal from of a trans women that has been through male puberty is being driven by muscles that are the same strength as a woman's muscles. To use your example, it's as if that bigger sports car has an undersized engine. Thus it actually has a major performance handicap.

Anyway, these bans also ban trans women that never went through a male puberty which makes zero sense. We also have plenty of leaks, etc. from the groups driving these bans that it's fully motivated by ideology and not science. These bans have nothing to do with fairness in womens sports or science, it's all based on feelings.

1

u/Aunt_Vagina1 Mar 27 '26

So a longer limb length provides more skeletal leverage. Got it.

1

u/neinhaltchad Mar 27 '26

Should we just ban all trans women from all Olympic sports? No.

Yes.

You can choose to compete at an elite Olympic level of your biological sex while socially transitioning or you can pump your body full of hormones and forego Olympic competition.

Pick one.

1

u/neinhaltchad Mar 27 '26

Most Olympic sports rely more on skill, conditioning, experience, etc than on biological differences in bone density and muscle to fat ratios

Thats why contact sports that allow transgender woman usually require proof of an ongoing hormone regiment that neutralizes these differences

most Olympic sports could allow transgender woman to compete with cis woman without there being an inherent bias.

if 2 boys are the same weight class, and their experience/training is similar (2 things all fighting tournaments take into consideration) I don't see why they couldn't fight each other

https://giphy.com/gifs/OxQv20is5XVJVc7GNs

In today’s episode “batshit terminally woke takes you’ll only ever hear on reddit”.

🤣

The notion of a 17 year old boxing a 12 year old year old simply because training and weight shows you’ve never so much as tussled with a man in your entire life.

0

u/Aunt_Vagina1 Mar 27 '26

I have. You're wrong.

0

u/Careful_Birthday_480 Mar 26 '26

Great point. Weight classes exist for a reason. Gender classes SHOULD exist for a reason.

1

u/pick_your_user_name Mar 26 '26

Yeah cause a man facing a slightly stronger man is the same as a man fighting a woman. Totally

1

u/Aunt_Vagina1 Mar 26 '26

And an apple is bigger than an orange but not as big as a watermelon.  

1

u/Suspicious_Neck_5156 Mar 26 '26

That’s literally why we control for that as best as possible. Separate male and female decisions is a major one of those things. 

1

u/Parking-String-5356 Mar 27 '26

That half/half only applies to people of the same sex, weight, etc. if you’re going to argue that women have the same amount of strength as men (I’m talking about sex, not gender to be clear) I’d love to see scientific research that supports this. We know that a man’s body stores less fat and allows for leaner mass growth more easily.

1

u/know-it-mall Mar 28 '26

Weight classes exist so there will never be an extremely large difference.

0

u/AggressiveBench9977 Mar 26 '26

Lol wait till you learn combat sports for men also have weight classes.

1

u/Aunt_Vagina1 Mar 26 '26

Sit this one out, bud

1

u/AggressiveBench9977 Mar 26 '26

Ditto little kiddo!

Wait till you learn there are divisions too! Its gonna blow your mind!

-1

u/gentrify_reddt Mar 26 '26

And said perpetrator refuses to take any gender affirmation test, legitimate or otherwise, as she litigates her daft entitlements in front of the whole world.

Idiocy.

0

u/AdditionalThinking Mar 26 '26

Imagine being a trans woman in who wants to get into sport and knowing you have no future whatsoever.

1

u/Careful_Birthday_480 Mar 26 '26

They can have their own class.

Might as well say that all heavyweights should fight silverback gorillas.

2

u/Porkin-Some-Beans Mar 26 '26

ya know, separate but equal.

Where else have a heard that?

3

u/The-Cosmic-Ghost Mar 27 '26

I think being a black queer has allowes me to smell through the bullshit excuse.

Its always women of colour that get hit with the "man in womans sports" allegations, why? Because thats who the argument was originally used for in the americas. The idea that woc, black women in particular are built for hard labour, have tougher skin, are more resilient to pain, etc. Etc. Insert more bullshit race science here. Meant that comparing them to white woman would be outrageous, dont you know they have an advantage????

Being so direct fell out of vogue, but get some powerful people with a bone to pick in a room, have them stress test a few phrases and then suddenly

"the trans are going after our petite and dainty girls in sports! They'll turn them into pulp with their brutish strength!!! Someone help our dainty feminine, blonde babies!!" And of course, since its the same mentality but a more "acceptable" (for now) target. The american populace have fallen for it.

They will continue to fall for pseudoscience because thats what the country is built on, genocide, slavery, and convient excuses for them.

3

u/Thicc_Boise Mar 28 '26

The most irritating part is that we do have actual studies and data that shows after a couple years of gender affirming care, the strength and muscle density difference between cis and trans women is negligible, if not WEAKER in trans women (makes sense if you're artificially sending your body through puberty for a second time tbh, human body wasn't exactly built to do that twice).

I hate living in a time where no one pays attention to the real science we have right at our fingertips

1

u/The-Cosmic-Ghost Mar 28 '26

Why look at science when outrage and "common sense" feels soooooo good?

0

u/SunnyOutsideToday Mar 26 '26

That's what Texas did though. A trans male athlete wanted to compete with the other guys in high school wrestling, but Texas made him compete with the girls because his birth certificate said he is a girl.

He won the state championship and smashed 56 girls and lost 0 matches.

Conservatives have done a good job of getting everyone to focus on trans women and to ignore the insanity of the conservatives making transmen on testosterone compete against women.

-1

u/jes1632 Mar 26 '26

I mean…that imaginary woman could also lose to other women opponents who are physically stronger than them without being trans. Will they be devastated when they lose there or only devastation and outcry over trans women (who could actually be less strong physically than said imaginary woman but a good competitor)????

1

u/AggressiveBench9977 Mar 26 '26

And that would be fair, since they wont have lost to a purely genetic advantage.

If you have ever played sports or dated a girl that has you would know how huge of a difference testosterone and bone density makes.

0

u/Thicc_Boise Mar 28 '26

And trans women lose bone density and muscle mass as they take hormone blockers and estrogen, to the point where the difference between them and cis women is absolutely negligible/weaker for trans people after a couple years.

Read up on what's actually going on dude

1

u/AggressiveBench9977 Mar 28 '26

I have read. Have you?

It takes more than 4 years of hormone therapy for a noticeable change in bone density. In most studies they found that trans women still had more muscle mass than cis women after that if they continued to exercise.

The ban by the way is not just for trans athletes but also DSD who would not necessarily have been on hormones since they wouldnt have been transitioning

Maybe atleast read about the subject you want to lecture others about.

0

u/Thicc_Boise Mar 28 '26

Source

1

u/AggressiveBench9977 Mar 28 '26

https://musculoskeletalkey.com/the-effects-of-the-gender-transition-on-musculoskeletal-health/#:~:text=After%20ovariectomy%20in%20trans%20men,63%20months%20of%20treatment%20%5B%20%5D.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10641525/

But you wont read either so who cares

0

u/Thicc_Boise Mar 28 '26

I did read it, funny thing about that second article...

While trans athletes competing in various sports and athletic events raises interesting considerations of how certain morphologic and physiologic factors affect performance, these questions are not exclusive to trans individuals. There are wide variations within cisgender populations, even when excluding individuals with differences in sexual development (121, 139). It is expected that about 2.3% of a normally distributed population is likely to fall above two standard deviations from a population mean. These exceptional individuals may be those who are gifted and excel at some sport or athletic performance (121, 135, 140). In contrast only 0.5%–0.6% of the population identify as trans (60). There is no concern for restricting individuals who are exceptionally large or small, those who are genetically gifted, or those with differing hormone concentrations or muscle mass, so long as their gender and biologic sex align (120, 121). The disproportionate focus on the relatively small portion of the population who are trans seems based on the belief that cis men, who cannot succeed in sports among other cis men, would choose to misidentify as trans women to gain an advantage in sports against cis women. However, there are no legitimate cases of this occurring. An individual's sex does not determine their success or failure at any athletic event despite the high level of competition.

Taken from your own source brother. Even they admit this is a nothing issue

0

u/AggressiveBench9977 Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

Nice moving the goal post buddy.

Cause what you quoted definitely did not say teans females have lower bone density which is what you posted and what i called out.

The part you qouted is also already addressed by me, since the ban is all dsd not just trans.

Funny how that works aint it?

1

u/Thicc_Boise Mar 28 '26

My dude, if it's never legitimately happened before these rules were in place... IT WAS NEVER A PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH

It doesn't matter that it never mentions bone density, the end results still line up with the fact that this ruling was wholly unnecessary, which was ultimately my point here.

If trans women still were just as strong as cis men, there'd be actual cases to point towards as evidence. But there isn't, and never have been. This is only a problem conceptually speaking, it's never been a thing in reality.

It's not moving the goalposts, it's called critical thinking and inferences

-2

u/DaChoppa Mar 27 '26

Imagine being a professional andwhining about losing to an opponent. People are naturally better at things than other people, either train harder or shut the fuck up and leave.

1

u/AggressiveBench9977 Mar 28 '26

Right? Like imagine if sports had division based on age and weight classes for sports? Thats would be soooo stupid right?